No leads, no sales #3: Who Are Our Customers?

I was thinking of a sales tag for a cutting board.
Price A) $25.00
Made in a third world country where the builder gets $0.25 and the importer gets $7.50 Walmart gets the rest.
Price B) $35.00
Made buy an American who pays taxes and supports the local economy
Price C) $95.00
If you had it built by a plumber or electrician
Price D) $155.00
Lets say you paid one of those guys that tells you how much your house is worth
Price E) $1,450.00
You hired a Lawer
Price F) $3,545.27
Hospital bill
Price G) $2,500,000.00
NBA Player or hip hop artist….
All except B will mess it up…yet B is out of work go figure!

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

I had a guy at a crafts show tell me that 90% of his sales were to women whose friends had bought something from him before.

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

Dennis, another excellent, well expressed post, I think you nailed it again.

-- "You get what you inspect, not what you expect"

I’d add that the ability to produce a high quality woodwork product is about one half of whats needed to be successful.

The other half is working out how to woo people of a vastly different socio economic background from yourself. No easy task when your own friends and family think you’re arrogantly expensive, and your customers are often pretentious little twirps.

I guess if it was easy anybody could do it.

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

Spot on! Thanks for sharing.

-- My favorite piece is my last one, my best piece is my next one.

Very good post.

-- Steven

I would like to point out a big competitor for professional woodworkers. The person who gets some woodworking equipment and proceeds to undercut everyone else, just to make enough to buy new tools and support thier HOBBY.

-- http://www.efcabineture.com/ You can be tired, or you can be broke, but you should never be tired and broke.

Your friends wives are probably not the best customers either, friends expect a deal like family does, and theres nothing wrong with that to a point. The problem is if you make something for them and give them the discount, if they talk about you, they will more than likely talk about your price also. Usually not a good combo.

Rhett, I have never experienced this as being a big problem. This is how a lot of “professional woodworkers” get started, by working at it part time. Yes, they will under cut by inappropriately charging less than it actually costs them. However, after a while they discover that they are not making money and either get their prices inline with the industry, or move on to other things. I have lost jobs to these people, but after a while, you never see them again. Some of their problem is poor quality of work, or less than good customer satisfaction and it affects referrals and repeat business to the point where they can’t sustain the business long term.

I have large woodworking shops complain about me. I am a one man show with low overhead and no employees. Of course I can do it for less, but I can’t do the volume they do. I tell them life’s a bitch, get over it. It amazes me how local cabinet companies get riled up because of a little friendly competition. Some of them can get downright nasty. It’s just business. But, I have a good relationship with a couple large shops because I outsource some of my work to them from time to time.

-- I don't make mistakes, only design changes....www.dgmwoodworks.com

I’d have to agree with Rhett, it’s not as rosie as you’d like us all believe. Cutting boards are a craft item and people don’t take craft or hobby stuff seriously. I had a gal a couple years ago call me about makeing some custom frames for her, I gave her a price and then it got silent, then she says, you think it would cost that much huh ? I allways thought that hobbyists do it for free. I seriously doubt that your makeing much per hour makeing cutting boards. Don’t get me wrong, they are nice.

Theres no money any more in high class woodworking . Far too many Ikeas fill the minds of the public with dreams of furniture that looks great and costs next to nothing, which is designed to last a few years and then chucked out with the garbage.They don’t want heirloom furniture that will be worth a hundred times the cost and still be around in a hundred years and much more.I had a neighbour ask me to make her a set of dining chairs she wanted to pay about twenty us dollars per chair I explained to her that I couldn’t buy the wood for that she still thinks I was trying to make on her offer. I just want to be left alone to make my own stuff and give it to my sons and friends for free,who eagerly suggest the kind of things that I should build them and I eventually do,to squeals of delight from them or their better halves well not quite squeels LOL but anyway don’t do this to even try to feed your families you will have a hard life.I still feel bad when I bought second hand-used equipment from guys who tried to make a living at cabinet making all of them were capable men but people at least here in the U K won’t pay for their stuff.I hope things are better where you are Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

Scotsman, thats EXACTLY why I’m not rushing out and buying a new cabinet saw, it wouldn’t pay for itself. The houseing trades are at a near stand still and very little furniture manufacturing is left in this country anymore, most people are straped in their expensive new homes, expensive vehicles, and toys. I’ve seen alot of new homes with lawn furniture and bean bag chairs in them because they can’t afford anything else, and or they just don’t care. Sure there maybe places in this country that are doing ok, but I think they are far and few. I know a guy in this town that is as good as anyone, he does some incredible work, even he is not busy all the time, and he certainly isn’t geting rich at it either. I think it’s all a big fantasy for alot of folks till reality finally kicks in.

People still care in the Northeast.

Things are slow, but folks are not putting lawn furniture in antique homes.

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Another great post. really good reading.

-- The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them

Barry, in my neck of the woods, or prarie I guess, in about the last 10 years, antique stores and antique restoration bussinesses have been slowly dieing off, theres not many around anymore. I’ve noticed the art deco lookin stuff comeing back, not that I’m a big fan of it, I prefer the old stuff.

Woodchuck,

Antique house, not shop. These are houses that are lovingly maintained, and typically kept in beautiful condition. Many people that own them go so far as to install historically correct materials when remodeling and/or altering, or adding on. They owners typically don’t have sub-prime mortgages and stuff like that, it’s the the meat with eyes that goes for new, MDF trimmed McMansions.

Antique homes never seem to go out of style, ‘cause they’re never really “The Rage”, in the corridor from DC to Boston, and into Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. They just kind of generate a steady pulse based on semi-scarcity.

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Great to hear a professional’s story.

Sort of reminds me of when I shopped table saws at the big orange box, then shopped them at the local Woodcraft store. Those stores sell to completely different customers and Woodcraft isn’t going to sell anything if they market to the guy looking to spend $100 on a saw to rip some panelling for his DIY basement remodelling. People will spend thousands on a table saw, but it’s got to be high quality and you’ve got to market it to the right people.

As you mention, you’ve really got to consider the who the customer is and how they will likely spend their money.

Great post! Do you have a gallery of your closet work online?

-- Neal

Barry, I understood, I live in a home that was built in 1917, and about 20 years ago I started restoring furniture to fill it up, in the last 5 years I’ve slowed down, I still have some I’d like to restore yet, but I’m in no big hurry, the day will come.

“you’ve got to market it to the right people.”

Absolutely.

The guy I own my airplanes with is a partner in a very established bicycle shop. The shop is in the top 20 in the USA sales-wise. His large shop has things from $99 Chinese unicycles to $18,000 (18k, not a typo) custom builds of Serotta and other hand-made frames.

The high-end room is entirely separate floor in the shop where we can quietly consult with customers during fitting and planning. One thing that we feel balances the shop, from a customer standpoint, is that the lower-end customers are not put-off by having to walk through the uber-expensive stuff.

We try to make each individual customer feel welcome, special, and happy about their specific purchase, regardless of cost.

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

I make my living with closets. I pick up extra income with crafts. I cannot make a living with crafts and I don’t recall ever using the word rosie in any of my blogs because that certainly doesn’t describe 2008. I don’t know any full time woodworker, or serious part time woodworker who’s business is not suffering. Now, unlike all the other folks who get paid every two weeks, we on the other hand get paid when we can find work. I detailed how much my business is off in the first blog in this series. So what do I do? Go work at the borg? Bag groceries? Hell no! So I started doing the craft thing. I have a fully outfitted shop, so why not use it to keep generating some non-traditional revenue. If I can bring in an extra $500 to $1000 a month, which is what has been happening, then it’s better than sitting around staring at the wall or giving up and going back to work for the man. Woodworkers and cabinet companies are dropping like flies due to lack of business. I refuse to fail because I’ve had 7 good years making a very good living at it and I intend to have many more years. I’m doing what I need to generate extra cash flow, through diversification, or whatever you want to call it, so I ensure I am still around after the recovery (whenever that may be). Last Spring I was taking on carpentry jobs that I would normally walk away from. You have to do what you have to do.

As far as the $20 chairs or the picture frames go, I guess I didn’t get the point across. But, this is a good example of my point. You can’t get adequate compensation when you try to sell to these types of people. THEY ARE NOT YOUR CUSTOMER! I see this time after time. If you want to build chairs and sell them for $300+ per, then go find the customers that will pay this. They exist. I never believed anyone would spend $10,000 for a custom closet, but they do, and I have sold them on more than one occasion. Some spend $40,000+, though I have never been fortunate to catch one of these. If you are not willing to put the effort into finding the right customers for your product, or are not motivated because you have a steady paycheck from your day job, then don’t whine about it. Being in business for yourself is hard work, and you have to work twice as hard at it, even in good times. It’s not for everyone. Some days it’s steak and potatoes and some days it’s grilled cheese sandwiches. I can’t imagine doing anything else.

-- I don't make mistakes, only design changes....www.dgmwoodworks.com

In response to Closetguy’s post about who your customers are – I agree (from experience) that you’re right on in your assessment. There are people who are still spending money on closets. Particularly women – because a closet is something you use at least twice each day and a well-designed closet makes life easier to live and saves money because you know what you have and where it’s at! I’ve actually been fortunate enough to design some at that $50,000 price point – though most master closets (out of melamine) average around $5000. In the dollars and cents of it, it’s really a bonus when they want the work in wood because it doubles, if not triples the amount of the sale. If you can find a few interior designers or architects, they really can help your business tremendously because when you take care of them, they continue to refer clients. It’s really the basis of my marketing – that and using email marketing campaigns.

-- Denise Butchko, Design Consultant, ButchkoAndCompany.com