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Bandings #1: Diamond bandings

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Blog entry by TheCaver posted 04-02-2009 06:10 PM 2062 reads 1 time favorited 11 comments Add to Favorites Watch
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I posted this in the forum but some ppl don’t go in there…..If you do, sorry for the repetition…..

Ok, so I gathered some ideas on how to make diamond banding (example below)

Note grain directions:

I made a lot of drawings and cut paper shapes to help me visualize the cut process, one of them being TT’s idea in the previous thread. This method although it produced the diamond pattern, it was well over 75% waste and grain direction was wrong compared to the commercial bandings and period pieces I’ve looked at. So, I went back and came up with this idea:

I stack three pieces, each layer the thickness of the desired diamond, then chamfer the dark part and crosscut strips the same thickness as the diamond. Perfect so far, correct grain direction and VERY little waste. Now I wonder how to chamfer the other side….So I made a little sled with a rabbet in it as shown:

Yes, I kinda knew what would happen…..the tiny short grain could not stand being routed and crumbled to bits. Had I not had this piece trapped as I did, no telling what would have happened.

Anyway, I’m stuck again….I’m so close, but this last chamfer is killing me…..Is there a better way to make this cut or a better way in general to make this banding?

Thanks for helpful input!

JC

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan



11 comments so far

View GaryK's profile

GaryK

10262 posts in 2742 days


#1 posted 04-02-2009 06:50 PM

Make a clamping jig for the tablesaw. Lot less violent that the router.

-- Gary - Never pass up the opportunity to make a mistake look like you planned it that way - Tyler, TX

View TheCaver's profile

TheCaver

288 posts in 2593 days


#2 posted 04-02-2009 06:53 PM

Hmm, the problem is that I have the TS all set up for the removal cuts, and if I readjust every 2 strips (one off each side of the board), I might have tiny errors?

Or are you saying to cut all the strips, chamfering one side, then cut the chamfers?

JC

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

View Ampeater's profile

Ampeater

397 posts in 2501 days


#3 posted 04-02-2009 07:09 PM

Have you looked at this video?
http://woodtreks.com/learn-how-to-make-decorative-inlay-banding/529/

-- "A goal without a plan is a wish."

View jlsmith5963's profile

jlsmith5963

297 posts in 2101 days


#4 posted 04-02-2009 07:18 PM

You may be aware of this already, but just in case you aren’t Jeff Williams at Irion Company seems to have this inlay thing down. I have no way of knowing whether he would respond to a request for help but I don’t see how asking him could hurt. If you haven’t seen them there are several videos of him demonstrating his banding skill/knowledge at woodtreks.com.

http://woodtreks.com/learn-how-to-make-decorative-inlay-banding/529/

-- criticism: the art of analyzing and evaluating the quality of an artistic work...

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2402 days


#5 posted 04-02-2009 07:21 PM

1. you should (this is how these tools are meant to be used right?) run all cuts of same dimensions at the same time – so , cut all removal cuts first, then run all chamfering cuts second.

2. you can make a sled for the TS to cut the chamfers, that way, if you really wanted to ‘finish’ each piece at a time- there’s no adjustments to make – simply put the chamfer sled on, and take it off after the cut. although good workflow is to group similar cuts together.

and as Gary said – the TS is less violent on these cuts as it cuts in a straight line 90 to the material being cut, as opposed to the router that rotates INTO the material and projects a lot of forces onto it.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View TheCaver's profile

TheCaver

288 posts in 2593 days


#6 posted 04-02-2009 07:42 PM

I’ve watched the woodtreks videos, they are pretty good….And give a lot of the basics….and you can do a lot with those type of cuts, but the diamond pattern in particular seems to evade me….

Thanks!

JC

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

View GaryK's profile

GaryK

10262 posts in 2742 days


#7 posted 04-02-2009 09:17 PM

You can do them both all at once or make a jig that will do both in the same setup.

A long jig with two clamping fixtures along it’s length. One does one cut the other does the remaining cut.
One cut on the saw does both at the same time. Just remove the finished one and move the incomplete one
to take it place.

If you plan on doing a lot of them it might be worth it.

Look at this example: Here

Now this one is made to do one operation at a time, but I could have easily put both along the same edge to do both cuts in one operation. I didn’t bother because I was only going to use it once then throw it away.

-- Gary - Never pass up the opportunity to make a mistake look like you planned it that way - Tyler, TX

View TheCaver's profile

TheCaver

288 posts in 2593 days


#8 posted 04-03-2009 03:21 PM

Gary, I think your idea is the front runner, I tried it last night and it works pretty well, just 2 issues; in the process of milling my stock, I used an MDF sled which I clamped to the planer since the target thickness was going to be a fat 3/16”. I think I tweaked the sled and the stock came out uneven width wise, which made this process an alignment nightmare, but since it was just a test, I pushed ahead.

The second issue is a little more complex. Even with a hollow ground laminate blade (130 tooth I think), I was still tearing out little chunks off the end of the mitered section. Maybe cutting the strips a little fat would help here, though I’m doubtful since its still VERY short grain. I used a backer piece of MDF but it didn’t seem to help.

I’ll post some pics later after I get them sliced up….

Thanks!

JC

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

View Ampeater's profile

Ampeater

397 posts in 2501 days


#9 posted 04-04-2009 12:46 AM

I think that the band should be cut with a table saw. Here is how I would make it.

Glue up the three pieces of wood with the dark wood pieces being 1/4” thick and the light wood being 3/16” thick. The width and length should be determined by the user, depending on the amount of banding required.

Also, cut another piece of wood to the same dimensions as the above sandwich. (11/16” thick)

Using your table saw, cut 3/16” thick strips as shown in the photo.

Using the table saw, with the blade set to 45 degrees, cut the strips as shown in the photo.

1. Glue the strips together as shown.
2. Plane both sides of the banding until you obtain the desired thickness.
3. Glue a piece of veneer to both sides.
4. Use the table saw or band saw to make the desired thickness strips.

-- "A goal without a plan is a wish."

View TheCaver's profile

TheCaver

288 posts in 2593 days


#10 posted 04-04-2009 02:22 AM

Thanks for the great sketchup diagrams. However, I think the same problem would exist, ie, cutting to the edge of some really short grain, plus a new one. Hand planing the above would leave tiny variations thereby not fitting properly into the inlay channel. Power planing may work, but again, that short grain would probably tear out or even explode in the planer . A guy over at the Tchisel forum posted a different approach and I think I can modify the idea to work with less waste.

I should be able to get to this over the weekend and will update this thread with results, but here is the process (proposed).

Let’s say I want 1/4” banding with 2 layers of veneer. Measure the 2 layers of veneer, subtract from .25 and you have your layer thickness and strip thickness for cutting (Let’s say .20” for ease).

Make a 2 color sandwich (we’ll use the above colors for clarity and minus the solid intermediate layer (the brown strips above) and focus on just the diamonds).

The sandwich should be 1 layer of diamond color (yellow in this case) which is .20 thick and one later of mahogany (red) which is .20 + your sawblade kerf (let’s say .0625), so the red layer will be ~.263.

1st Cut:
Saw blade at 90 degrees, crosscut strips .20 thick.

Turn them anti-clockwise 90 laying them flat (for correct grain direction) and lightly glue.

2nd cut:
Use saw blade tilted to 45 and use a stop block to cut (.20) into the dark layers repeatedly, the extra stock should be exactly the kerf width and should minimize the short grain tearing out since the pieces are backed up. In theory :)

Now it should be a simple matter to glue up chunks, veneer the outer layers, and Bob’s your uncle.

I’ll post my miserable results from today a little later and I’ll document the above process tomorrow…..Let’s hope for the best!

JC

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

View TheCaver's profile

TheCaver

288 posts in 2593 days


#11 posted 04-05-2009 03:03 AM

Process so far:

Sled showing cutoff being used as a spacer. I wanted the banding to be 1/4”, so, my veneer is .06”, my sandwich and diamond should be .19” . I am doing dark diamonds this time, so my dark layer is .19 and my light layer is .19” + my blade kerf (use a test kerf, not the blade itself, it might be slightly warped or your saw may have some runout!)

These cuts need to be fully backed up:

Ready to cut:

Next, I clamped the red board to my surface and made sure it was square. Then I lightly glued the strips and scrunched them together and quickly clamped a block behind the last strip.

Not shown, I then put some weight on top so I’m not playing 37 strip pick up later on….

In 30 minutes, the moment of truth. I need to make up a little 45 degree sled with a stop block, make my first line up cut, then set the stop block to .19” + .19” = .38”. At this point, barring any inconsistencies or my biggest fear, tearout along the thin edge, we should be in business.

While we wait for the glue to dry, here are some pics of early attempt at diamonds…You can see how wonky and uneven they are…..

And here is the stripe banding in action on my Federal table (one coat of oil only so far):

Some of the solid banding (all shop made) and the cock beading as well as first hand cut dovetails….Can’t really see them but I’ll post all this in a project later…

That’s it for now!

JC

-- Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan

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