I am Curious

The “watch” and buddy features can do most of what you are looking for.

-- It's better to have people think you're stupid rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

yup growth means change – doesnt have to be drastic, but like anywhere else, it’s a part of progress. it really boils down to Martin I think. you’ll see suggestions for improvements from time to time, and ideas that can be implemented to this site. but It’s Martin that has to actually make that happen. what you call for – is a good idea, but I believe requires a major overhaul to the sites infrastructure.

change is good. especially when it’s done properly and in stages.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Miket – the watch and buddy can only take you so far – with posts that are already posted, meaning you have to personally read them and click them – which means – you’ve already read the OP… buddies is great, but what if someone new came along that you haven’t had a chance to add?

I think the idea of this OP was the ability to keep track of new posts/content that is subject centric without having to manually chase after buddies/people and posts. but rather automate it which is what computers are for.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

PurpLev – That’s why I said “most”

-- It's better to have people think you're stupid rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

I actually prefer the current set up with all the projects and post one place, so to speak. If I had been in any way guided to a more specialized section I might not have seen much of what’s available and would not have given a thought to trying different things. My vision has broadened more in my 18 moths here than in the 3 years prior only because I was presented with so many different things.

-- When you give someone a chance it may well be their last.

Hey Tom I think you raise some great points …..I would love to see “SUB-GROUPS ” of many woodworking categories ….
I think change is great if we all embrace it and accept it ….

And by forming some “SUB-GROUPS”...we are becoming pro active and controlling our changes …

thanks Tom …

This one will be interesting to see the comments …pro and con ….lol

-- Mike in Bonney Lake " If you are real real real good your whole life, You 'll be buried in a curly maple coffin when you die."

I’m a newbe in comparison but compared to other sites LJ has them beat hands down

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

I agree with Shopsmithtom.

(Un)Fortunately the rate of growth of LJ means that even using the RSS feature to scan all titles as I do, it’s getting to a level quite tiresome that requires a certain commitment in time. I’d rather have discrete feeds for each forum so I could chose wich ones to avoid. I.e. I have no interest whatsoever in the Coffee Lounge and this is, alas, one of the biggest and fastest in growth nowadays.

Also, if Martin would give us the much long and often requested feature of blocking individuals from appearing in our tailored feeds, this would not only largely reduce the amount of posts received, but also alleviate a good deal of the tensions that lately seem to be creeping on us at an alarming rate.

Martin has always been pretty responsive and fast to apply changes and improvements and he deserves to be credited for all the hard work. Lately though, the size of the site has exploded so much that is inevitable that things take a longer time to fix and changes need to be very well checked for scalability before implementation.

Still, after over 15 years of intense internet usage of all kinds, I can’t think of a better bang for my buck than this site.

-- Jojo, shopless in Kyoto · http://twitter.com/kagushokunin

Russel, I’m not suggesting that we change any of what we already have. The broad based approach suits many LJ’s. I’m only wondering if adding an extra way of getting us to specific areas of interest would enhance things. -SST

-- Accuracy is not in your power tool, it's in you

It could help some folks out and hurt others. I think you should still have to go through the homepage to see the up and comings. This site is a social greatness, and I wouldn’t want that to get ruined by sub dividing us. I believe the site is good just like it is, and if you want categories you should have an option in “My Lumberjocks” Please don’t take the feel from the website.

Martin is doing an excellent job maintaining the madness. He’s creating a social monster that hopefully is benefiting him. My hat, and saw, is off to you Martin for doing such a great job.

Controversy always sparks interest for some odd reason. I think the weasels that are creating it are looking for attention, and finding it. Let’s keep LJ’s a fun place that doesn’t become segragated.

-- Woodshop supplies at bulk discounts. www.getneds.com

Since Martin already uses “tags” it might be as simple as having a personalized home page that “emphasizes” or “filters in/out” posts/projects by tag.

For example, if you select “turning” as one of your “favorite tags,” then blog posts tagged with “turning” might bubble up to the top on your home page. This would certainly take some doing as the homepage, beside the user’s name, isn’t currently (at least obviously) personalized in any way.

Maybe instead of personalizing the home page, it could be a separate ”suggested articles/blogs/projects” page or even just a new filter on the “pulse” page.

I woudn’t at all be surprised if Martin’s already had thoughts along these lines.

-- Patrick, Chicago, IL http://www.TenonAndSpline.com/blog

I’ve talked to Martin a few times about this and I ‘think’ he’s developing a groups system similar to flickr. So a group gets created say modern design, and people can subscribe to the group and add any project they see that fits the bill to it, you could then be notified that a project has been added to one of your groups. I think that would go a long way to solving this. Not sure how far along he is with it though.

The groups idea could also help Martin sell more ads because an advertiser could target a specific group.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

personally, I just LOVE LOVE LOVE to see the front page sliding gallery increased to something way past 15. I use the front page to slide over the 15 most recent projects and blogs, etc…however with the explosion of people, and the unfortunate people who post everything they’ve ever done immediately upon joining, I can’t see everything in the past day or two without several more clicks. So all I’ll personally love to see is at least the option of increasing that 15 to something higher. Perhaps I already can and didn’t know it. Feel free to call me an idiot then….as long as you also point out how I can change it.

-- "That which has in itself the greatest use, possesses the greatest beauty." - Unknown Shaker

getneds,
I’m NOT suggesting that anything about the homepage or site, for that matter, be changed. I’m just wondering if ADDING an additional option might be a good thing. No one would need to be sub divided if they don’t want to. I’m just thinking that in addition to being a part of this site, some folks might want to ALSO be part of a “focus” group where woodworkers with similar likes & interests can congregate. For me, it would just make it easier to hone in on those parts of woodworking that I like the most, without having to go into the broader areas if I don’t want to.

I sure wouldn’t want to give up the rest of it because there are times that I drift into other areas, sometimes to learn & sometimes just to browse.

I thought I made it clear that I like what we have, and I was just interested in feedback on change that enhances that. -SST

-- Accuracy is not in your power tool, it's in you

A newbie here too, to woodworking and this site, and think your idea is a valid one. I do, however, like the current set-up as a way for me to see all the different things that are possible with woodworking. I don’t think I would have ever discovered some of the things people have done if it wasn’t for this site how it currently is. Old ways give ground slowly. I agree that it would be nice to edit the feeds to your liking, so you don’t have to see the stuff you’re not even remotely interested in, say, if you are an experienced craftsman and don’t want to [waste] time looking at the thousands and thousands of things that might possibly grab your interest or get your thoughts moving in a new direction, but me, [wasting] my time looking at this stuff is often inspiration.

My writing teachers always said, “Good artists copy; great artists steal.” Oh, college!

-- crafty ladies love wood too!

This site rminds me of the New York Times or the LA Times newpapers, they are huge! BUT there is anything and everything one might want to know in them. LJ is the growing but has areas of interest, the coffee lounge and a wonderful history of just about everything wood that can be brought by index and drawn from. The really big part of LJ is that a PM can sent directly to another member to chat about a project. Let LJ grow, embrace it for its full house of knowledge and entertainment and join in with projects, advise and laughter.

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

...but I really need this to have spell check or know where to find it! ; )

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

But the NY times is handily broken up into sections…

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

If you use Firefox or Google Chrome as a browser the text fields all have spellchecking (underlines in red any typos and a right click to fix)

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

DP, The top of each page has the sections and within each section has a listing and then there is the search box…

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

...that’s the top of each LJ page!

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

Sure, but all the LJ sections pertain to woodworking as a whole, just like the NYTimes pertains to news, but I don’t care about celebrity news, so I can skip that section, I also don’t care about intarsia, or pyrography, but I have no way of skipping those as things stand.

Also I would only consider groups functionality useful in the context of the projects tab.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

I too find that it is difficult to follow everything posted but I’m ok with that.

Even though the site has grown quite a bit, I think that it has remained overall very friendly and a great place to exchange information.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

on other websites there is too much name calling and bickering it is all in bad taste I like it here the way it is everyone is pleasent and helpful.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

I agree with Todd. I don’t seem to have a problem getting the info I need or want to see.

-- Jerry--A man can never have enough tools or clamps

I am a relative newbie and I am hindered by the fact that I have some special wood working interests that not all LJs are burdened with. Those special interests cause me to focus on some aspects of the site whileignoring some of the others.

It is those that I ignore that also might fall into my areas of special interest that I worry about. I would really like to feel, when I log out, that I have read and responded to everything that is of interestto me. The site has grown large enough that I know that does not happen.

Example: I read and maybe even study nearly everything that is posted regarding safety in the shop. I also am very interested in the electrical aspects. Those two are quite transparent.

I am a Shopsmith user. The buddy feature gets me to a lot of the posts regarding Shopsmith and Shopsmith related discussions but not all of them. I also enjoys jigs and fixtures. These are two categories that I would like to see “brought to the fore front” for those interested.

Now, please don’t take any of what I have said as being a harsh criticism. I love the site and all that it does. Some sub-groups, if that is what they need to be called, would just make it easier for me.

One thing that this thread has done is make me aware of tags and I’ll go look into that. That may help me.

Now, I’ve said enough – I think I’ll go make some saw dust and come back to read later.

-- Making Sawdust Safely

This is good. A healthy discussion always seems to lead to positive results. If Martin happens to stumble across this thread, perhaps it will provide food for thought as the site continues to move forward.

That’s all I was hoping for.-SST

-- Accuracy is not in your power tool, it's in you

I enjoy this site the way it is set up. I realize I am probably missing a whole bunch of really great work, but I don’t do a comprehensive reading of all the posts I just pick and choose and use my favourites to return to things I like. If I find it is being too time consuming I look at myself and say hey, its supposed to be fun to read LJs if its bugging me that I can’t read everything it not the sites fault but mine. I really appreciate the huge amount of work this site must be for Martin and as others have identified here I hope he is making a tidy profit from this site and long may it exist! The last forum I enjoyed this much self destructed after people forgot to be civil with each other. I think we should commend ourselves for the friendly and cooperative nature and tone of this site, well done all.

-- ...it's rennovation time!!!

I can’t see how adding groups would change anything at all, it would be the same people, the same projects, the same discussions only it would allow your time here to be more productive. You’d see more of the kinds of projects you are interested, which leads to more discussion, more interaction, more of what we actually like about LJ.

This isn’t about putting a fence around the turners, or the carvers, or the box makers, this is just about letting people interact with the people, and projects they are most interested in. Nothing about the site needs to change at all, groups is just another way to get the most out of the site.

Go take a look at how flickr works, you can still browse and explore and poke around but you can also take a peek at all the pics in the cars group, or the black and white group, and if it’s a black and white car pic you’ll see it in both places. The point is to bring together the birds of a feather while still allowing exploration, and again this just pertains with the projects view, not forums or blogs which work well as they are due to the buddy system.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

great discussion.

The past year…well 6 months I have used my e-mail—-just clicking in and out of my buddy posts…and I am saddened that I dont have the time to keep up anymore because there is soooooo much that I am missing…

I wish more people consistently used tags…because it could be a really valuable search tool…

I think when posting there should be two components added—-a button that pops up to ask new members to refrain from adding more then three projects in a day…and secondly asking: “did you add tags?” so that more people would use them….

I like SST’s idea…I have often thought of a “Beginner’s Corner” in addition to the categories he suggested…

I suggested a “Lumber Jock’s Dictionary” recently and Martin liked the idea…but have not heard anything…

Lots of good ideas…I think that is what has made my LJ experieince so positive—-is that WE the LJ members have always been apart of the creative process…martin does all the hard stuff…but its our USAGE of the site that is what makes us think of things that can make it better…

-- Matt, Napa, CA...fun is beautiful...just trying to have some fun...

You’ve got to watch out though, We seem to think that whatever we do is good for a branch of the site. Some have been mentioned. But I’ll bet we can come up with a large number of topics. Suppose we did Shopsmith, then there are the grizzlies, and the Jets, and the….oh heck, Craftsmans even. I’ve got a bunch of vintage Craftsman tools. So, we’d have to have one for the vintage shopsmith, vintage grizzlies, vintage craftsmans, etc. I won’t continue with the plethora of topics that people would think are worthy because it’s their thing.
The bottom line is, do we want LJ’s to become fragmented?
If it got bigger and more unwieldy I could see General topics become their own areas. Possibly types of woodworking. i.e. I don’t have a lathe and maybe never will. So a turners section might be good for those who turn. We ALL do joinery in some fashion or other so that wouldn’t be a good splinter topic. Separating hand tool users from power tool users shouldn’t be done either. You can’t build a cabinet with only power tools and I’ll bet most hand tool users rip their (long) boards on a table saw instead of using a handsaw.
It’s just that I don’t want to miss anything by hanging in one area and ignoring another because the title of it isn’t necessarily my thing.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful. http://web.me.com/deceiver6/Deceiver/Craftsman_on_the_lake/Craftsman_on_the_lake.html

@Daniel – I understand what you are saying but I really think your concerns are unfounded. As things stand, and as the site continues to grow you run the risk of alienating people, and overwhelming them with content and projects they aren’t interested in.

You also couch things in terms of separating people but what you really accomplish with groups are better connections amongst the people that have the same interests. You could see what groups a project belongs to (and again it projects can span multiple groups) and explore the projects via those groups.

I really can’t see a downside to it, quite frankly LJ is already separated, I certainly don’t add people whose projects don’t interest me as buddies, nor do I comment on projects I’m not interested in, but like shopsmithtom and napaman I tend to miss a lot of the projects and people I would like to interact with because the project page is too noisy so I tend to stick to just my buddy posts.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

Also if you do want to keep up with all the posts you should subscribe to the project RSS feed

http://feeds.feedburner.com/lumberjocks-projects

That way you can see all the new projects posted, and there is no 15 limit.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

I second Damian – this is not about dropping everything that LJ is today and make it something ELSE, it’s about adding another layer of control to keep people’s interest alive and not overwhelming people with many posts that they have no interest in reading… and missing those in between posts that actually would interest them.

you could still see all the posts if you don’t enter a certain group… but it’ll give you the option to reduce the overhead of posts, and keep in touch with your woodworking specific interests here.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I’m curious (again)...maybe I’m just a curious kind of guy, as to why some of the respondents think that adding an additional option to the site will somehow take something away from the rest of the site. If you add the ability to be part of a focus group, it would not preclude you from simply ignoring that option and continuing to live your lumberjock life as you always have. It would simply give others another way to enjoy the site. Why would anyone object to something that doesn’t hurt their enjoyment of the site but helps others to enjoy it.

Even now, I doubt that everyone uses all the current options, yet no one seems to mind that they exist.
All I’m suggesting is, how about another option? -SST

-- Accuracy is not in your power tool, it's in you

The lure of the familiar separates us from the unexplored.

I’m not saying not to do it or that it would necessarily hurt LumberJocks in any way. What I’m saying is that if there were such groups when I joined, there’s a good chance I would not have been exposed to the majority of what’s available on LumberJocks.

Human nature is drawn to the familiar (believe it or not, it’s not just me), and as a natural consequence isolation develops even when there is ample opportunity to avoid it. Segregation is natural.

The absence of groups when I joined led me to the Pulse button where I was introduced to top-notch box building, rustic furniture, carving and mixed media; none of which I had any interest in when I joined.

LumberJocks, by it’s design exposed me to things I didn’t know I was interested in because I didn’t really know/acknowledge that they even existed. It was a lack in me and my development that would only have been encouraged by the presence of defined groups.

By not having the opportunity to specialize, I was lured into growth. And, because of the good that I experienced, I’d really like for others to share it.

-- When you give someone a chance it may well be their last.

I like the site the way it is (ref. Russel above), but this seems like more of a sorting problem to me. Maybe we could have the same set-up but with more sorting options. Of course with more sorting options you run into classification problems which requires a wholel new level of admin. Also, how do you classify a turning with carving on it ? And so on. Maybe keeping it simple is better after all. What do you computer gurus say?

-- Mike, American in Norway

@stefang – if you allow a user to set up a group – and add projects to that group then there is no additional admin required by Martin; like the rest of the site it would user generated, and user moderated. A turning with a carving on it could be added to both the turning group and the carving group, it would be at the discretion of the person who started the group (again just like flickr if you are familiar with that site).

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

In fact you can ‘almost’ achieve this now via favorites. If I were to sign up as a new user and call myself modern design then I could favorite all the projects I see that I consider to be modern designs. Everyone else could then look at my favorites and see all the modern design projects.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

I know this topic has been discussed before and that it is on Martin’s “to do” list – however he chooses to resolve the issue.

For me, it would be sad to separate the site in any way—you just never know what might inspire you or provide a great tip— but it would be a bonus to add to the search abilities. Right now, we do have “tags” which only works if the members add “tags” (lots of tags) to their postings.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I’m certainly not against special groups as long as we still have the option to see everything posted if we want. I do tend to skip over projects that don’t catch my interest just to save time but still be active. The site is bound to evolve like everything else. Even though I like the site the way it is, I certainly wouldn’t mind having the option to be able to find special things easier. I do hope we won’t lose the open, community feeling of this site.

-- Mike, American in Norway