I Never Use Plans

A Plan is graphic “representation” (2 dimensions) of an object. The only purpouse of a plan is to give fisical and technical information about that “real” object to the person who is building it. A plan is not a design tool because it belongs to a 2D world. As you note, many people design on plans…....from that point, every single project and all the good ideas SINK.
A chair is a tri-dimensional object, involves three dimensions, that is SPACE. So the chair must be designed in these paramethers. When I was at the School of Architecture (1994-1999), I had the same issue with many teachers and Instructors, many of them conceiving a building just as a summation of plans, each one for every level of the building: that is cartography or mapping but never architecture. The same thing happens with the chair, that is a tridimensional object that interact and affect the sourronding space and the sensibility of a person. The most beautufull designs in history, I dare say, are 90% visual impact and 10% utility matter.

-- Francisco Luna, San Francisco Bay Area.

Usually when I build a prototype of a piece of furniture, I draw a sketch of what I’m after, then I build it in my head. I’ll break it down to smaller sections and go over the way I want to assemble it. When I get to the shop, sometimes things change or don’t work out quite right, and have to be modified. I always tell myself, if I would build it on paper first, I would save a lot of time, but I haven’t learned that lesson yet. I usually end up making a plan after the fact, in case I have to build another piece like it.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

A plan is most definitely a tool, and with applications such as sketchup/CAD , these plans can be brought to life in visual 3D, so saying that a plan belongs to a 2D doesnt really have any grounds. even without computerizes software plans usually consists of views from all 3D Dimensions, so in the mind of a woodworkers they form into a 3D representation.

I start every project with Sketchup, and although I do not print “plans”, and don’t really have an exploded view of things from all angles I do use that as my reference, and my guideline for measurements. it also helps me figure out the joinery I’ll use, and I get a pre-built glance at how things will end up looking.

I see plans as a guideline, and although many times you’ll need to steer away from them, and improvise on the spot – at least they represent some soft of base line for the project which helps keep things in perspective towards a finished product.

Saying that you prefer to work without plans is fine, each has their own ways of doing things. but saying “throw out your plans, they are really useless, no good work comes from them” – thats a bit hasty and harsh, and well – incorrect.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I am with you. I do not use plans. I look at pictures and for inspiration and I decide how big to make something. I start with the carcass and make everything fit to that.

I design but I don’t really use plans.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I don’t use plans that others have made. I usually make things out of my head.

Sometimes I will use AutoCAD to help with some details, especially if they are too complex to keep in my head. Getting old doesn’t help too much keeping things in my head.

Usually though I will start with a general idea of what I want to build, then build according to what material I have and fix screwups along the way. That’s the good thing about not using plans. no one but you knows that you screwed something up. They just think that the way you planned it that way.

I’ll leave it to you to look over my projects and try to find the mistakes..

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

after writing out a comment to this somewhere along the lines of what Purplev wrote, i realized that i’m not quite sure what Rogue means by “plans” at all. I’m guessing that by plans he means a set of scale diagrams, pictures, and step by step instructions on how to build something, usually drawn up by someone else. If so, well all that IS just one point on a whole spectrum of documented idealizations/models of the subject, which ranges from like, someone verbally describing it to you, through a set of photos, all the way to detailed scale drawings and instruction. depending on how good you are, how much experience you have, how big the project is, and how much you can carry around in your head – all that determines the level of detail you require in that model. So I guess I still don’t understand just what you mean Rogue!

I’m not familiar with how they teach things in design schools… are they really dogmatic (for lack of a better term)?

that said, you probably would have been really good at scientific research!

finally, Doubthead: can you clarify what you mean by “many people design on plans…….from that point, every single project and all the good ideas SINK. “

I do basic drawings, to work out the material requirements.

My favorite modelling materials, to work out spatial feel and size, are pink foam board, MDF, packing tape, cardboard, and the occasional “rip leavin’” scrap stick. To save material, I’ll rip the foam into 2” strips and build up with tape. The foam and MDF can be reused several times.

The foam model is very helpful to display an idea. The MDF is mainly used to display edge and panel profiles.

-- - Please help keep Lumberjocks an enjoyable escape by refusing to participate in political discussions. Simply spit out the bait and ignore the thread...

Parts of the original post are (dare I say) as crazy as someone who a few months ago, said, you should ALWAYS make plans for everything you build. While I agree with sharing ideas, I don’t agree that just because making plans ALWAYS, or throwing out plans and start designing is the way to go. We each (thankfully) have our own ways of doing things. I use plans as a basis, but rarely when I design, do I write dimensions down. I like to think that almost everything I create is a one off. This is what works for me, NOT what I want someone else to do.

Sketchup is one of the single greatest tools available to us right now to design in. Do some go further and make actual plans form their sketchups? Yep they do. But for me, it’s something to get a visual idea in, not to get exact measurements in. I don’t understand why people have to tell other people what to do, just because it works for them. Making a suggestion is a slight difference, and that’s ok with me.

-- Respect your shop tools and they will respect you - Ric

When I go to build something for a customer I make a pictorial sketch of what it is going to look like. Once I know the style, size of the units and what size the compartments or components need to be I make a cutting list. Because I have done this for so many years it does not take me very long to do this. All the parts for the cabinets and sub-assemblies are cut and machined before I even start to assemble anything. I do the sub-assemblies first (doors,drawers,face frames, shelves,etc) and then the main units. It goes a lot faster and takes up less space.

God Bless
tom

-- Mc Bridge Cabinets, Iowa

Hi
Great looking chest.
Same here i never real get to use plans, I start the day off planing on building a chair, I will start looking for logs to use for legs and a top, I will find a few in the sizes needed and start peeling them and getting them ready and i will lay them down to see what the top will look like with them and BAM something will not look just right and the chair will become a table or maybe a bench.
But all is good it was still a good day.
Take care and be good
Doug
check out some of my items at www.cedar-stuff.com

-- Doug Cedar Log Furniture, www.cedar-stuff.com

Aaron,
A plan is the very last thing to make regarding a project. After something is materialized and placed in the “real world”, so plans can be drafted. Even in Architecture, with all the cutting edge-technology, Virtual world and tridimensional posibilities, architects still feel the need of a model, we still live in the other side of the screen!

Plans are just data. Don’t get me wrong, plans are DIFFERENT of Drawings, sketches, croquis, pictures, collages and many others design tools.

-- Francisco Luna, San Francisco Bay Area.

I guess to be more specific, when I design I am essentially creating my own plans whether they are in my head or on paper. I do not work from published plans so much, they are less important to me. That is not to say that I will never use a plan, most of my situations have not required me to look at a plan. As I look back upon my growth as a woodworker I realize that I made a folding step stool from a plan.

I think that plans are more significantly important early on during an individual’s development as a woodworker. As a person grows in confidence and skill I encourage them to step out by modifying proven designs and then progressing to original design. This is a logical way to develop one’s design skill.

Models help me figure out the technical and production issues that I will run into and they are most important for conveying information to the client. As woodworkers we have to realize that our sense of 3-D visualization becomes more developed. I have had clients say that they never really could picture how it would really turn out even though I showed them sketches. They have difficulty translating the 2-D to 3-D.

I see published plans as a basic guideline, similar to a recipe for cooking. You can adhere to the recipe but ultimately it is a guideline and it is up to the individual to add seasoning and spices to make it personal. As a person becomes experienced in the kitchen they just know what works in a dish.

I do not think there is anything wrong with using published plans. I believe that it is simply up to the individual. It is my observation that in woodworking, design is the most difficult part of the process. Construction is the easiest and there are a great many craftsman that enjoy the construction phase but are not interested in the design aspect.

I would not want anybody following this thread to believe that using a published plan negates their skill at the saw. I do think that this is good information to understand how others deal with the topic of design and how they might progress if desired.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

Great topic!

I rarely use a drawing or plans anymore. I will picture a project in my head and then determine dimensions. I then write these dimensions down and then build a piece to the picture I have in my head. Early on in my wood working I would make three sided drawing and show every measurement and minor detail. I still have a bunch of those plans that I no longer need that have fading pencil marks: it is nice to look back and see how my wood working has evolved over the years.

-- Brian, Lebanon PA, If you aren’t having fun doing it, find something else to do.

For me, it depends. I don’t think I’ve ever used someone else’s plans, because to me the biggest joy is in the invention. It’s less so about the actual craftsmanship, which I can see being an inspiration to those using plans, buying them, searching for them online, or in magazines and books. To me, I feel like I’m making someone else’s project if I use plans, and not bringing my own creation to life.

I’ve long been one who makes his own [ever evolving as I build] plans, usually in Maya – more an animation-based 3D editor, though I use it in ways similar to AutoCAD – but lately I’ve decided I’m kind of tired of my own plans, and just want to dodge and weave and fight designs myself. I made a somewhat involved multi-layer cabinet recently (to be added to my projects soon), and I based it on some pictures of one I liked for which the PDF plans were available. I actually did read through them a bit after starting, but not for the measurements. Instead, I picked up certain ideas, like how to support a heavy door when attaching it, and that it might be better to surface-mount adjustable shelf standards and cut dados in the shelf sides to hold them in, instead of my plan, which was to flush-mount the standards, and put some kind of edging up the fronts to retain the shelves – that kind of thing. Measurements were based more on “How much of this width plank do I have, and how many of this thing that I need can I get out of it?” than they were on set goals.

It’s been really freeing not to use plans, but to simply lock down a few elements I know I need to hit, like that the cabinet should be 33” wide. From there I could simply think “Do I want the side walls to be mounted to the sides of the back wall, or the front of it?” and correct as I went for things like that, overlaps and such. It took longer than going from plans, because it was all about pondering as I went, building in my mind, instead of simply setting the fence to marks I’d taken from a plan, and quickly ripping everything to size, but it still felt somehow far more free.

Also, when I cut everything perfectly from a plan, I still end up having to fight a lot for assembly. Maybe screws pull wood closer together than expected, slightly changing a measurement, and it adds up, and now the shelf I cut simply will not go in, because it’s harder wood, and 1/32” too long, and nothing will budge to allow it in. By measuring how things come out as I go, and cutting things to fit that way, I’m getting much better fits on everything.

I think, however, that as I’m aging, I can see the benefit in plans. If I had a birthday coming up for a friend in a week, and I had some plans, and something in the plans that I think would be a great gift, I’d just cut everything from that and glue it up, just to get done quickly. Or if I really needed something in particular – a small cabinet that I’m not considering an artistic project, but just something utilitarian that would help me greatly, I don’t think I’d mind anymore going right by some plans to get it done, so I can get back to the other stuff, wherein I’d be pondering away, wasting time doing it all the slow, mental way :)

-- Gary, Los Angeles, video game animator

I’m not really sure what you meant in the original post Rogue, but if you meant using someone else’s plans, I know of very few who do that, most preferring to come up with their own idea. As a matter of fact, I don’t really know anyone who has even looked at more than a couple of plans, much less hundreds so I believe you have relied on plans much more than the average woodworker. My scribble that I use is made from my own imagination but possibly based off other’s completed projects I have looked at, with a few measurements on it to refer to while cutting so I guess that qualifies as a plan, but it is my own. I have to do this because it may be weeks before I get to a project after I conceptualize it, and months before it is completed, and my memory is not that good.

-- Dale Manning, Carthage, NY

I not like you high falutin deziner people, me ain,t that smart. I use plans a lot as most of my work is an interpretation of past styles anyway. I modify dimensions and details when necesary, a writing desk to take a PC instead of cubby holes for example, but i,m quite happy to use plans simply because having the dimensions in front of me just makes the work go that much easier. I would hate to think Carlyle Lynch wasted his life.
Thanks for the very interesting post on how you guys get things done.

-- if the hand is not working it is not a pure hand

Good Topic!! I’m in the No-Plan Crowd. Heck, I hardly ever use a ruler or tape! Working on a new box right now, that I first had the idea for sometime in the 90’s. Tried drawing it first, but I couldn’t really “see” it well enough and decided to go ahead and try to build it, to see whether it’s even feasible…so far, so good (typing with crossed fingers!)
I considered posting progress reports on it, as a blog, but to be honest, as much as I value the opinions and skills of everyone here, I also thoroughly enjoy mucking my way through this on my own, sinking or swimming by my own actions. Maybe that’s Self-ish, I don’t know, but this particular project has taken more thought and visualization than anything I’ve done in a while, and that’s where all the fun is!! I think it’s called creativity.
OTOH, if I’m making somebody a sign or something, I don’t feel compelled to reinvent the alphabet, there are patterns for that….;-) Michael C.

-- Mike in Manchester, NH---Unpleasant tasks are simply worthy challenges to improve skills.

being a beginning wood worker i use plans, but i hope to reach a point where i can build items of my own design someday.

but seeing the initial post got me thinking, what sites and on line galleries do you guys use for ideas?

rogue, artful.com doesn’t appear to be the right url.

But i would love to know of other sites you guys frequent as well.

-- David - Houston, Texas.

I admire you woodworkers that can just look at a project or a photo and grab some wood and start cutting and make it look like you used some plans. And if you can do that without wasting wood, that is really great. That I cannot do. I have to have plans. I usually draw up my own plans. For me that is just another part of the overall project that I really enjoy doing. Some use plans, some do not. Some use power tools, some use only hand tools. Some use one type of finish, some use another. That’s what makes this site so great.

-- Ron in Osseo, Minnesota

I agree with Todd’s second post, as usual, he is right on the money.

-- "You get what you inspect, not what you expect"

I’m one of those old guys who still likes to sit down at a drawing board with “T” square and triangles.

I have worked with purchased plans a couple of times in the past, but most of the time I start with a photo, or better yet, an antique that I can measure and ascertain the types of joinery. I get a great deal of use from a note book with a 1/4” grid. I make a lot of sketches and often this is all I need.

However, I don’t have the skill to directly take an idea in my head to the table saw.

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

I’m in the “both” camp. I made my first post in quite a while showing a “plan” project just a couple hours after this one started. At other times, I’ve extrapolated (designed?) a piece of furniture from a line drawing in an old catalog (and perhaps changing a feature because I wanted it to “feel” more substantial or “light.”) I’ve “downsized” from the inspiration of a piece I’ve seen to fit the material I have on hand. I’ve purchased a book on furniture design theory which was very helpful in understanding why, and learning the language/ theory of why, things sometimes will just “look” or “feel” wrong. But I’ve never been much of a creative doodler in my head or on paper or in sketchup. Sure, everyone can grow, expand, be released . . . . Perhaps with the right inner passion, outside influence or a creative mentor, there’s a creative designer just waiting to be released from my inner being. Who knows? Much of it has to do with how you’re wired though. I enjoy building (or at least being inspired by) the creative “plans” of others. Thank God for them. Because there’s some things I come across that I cannot imagine would have ever been visualized in my head! Is one way right, and the other wrong? No, not right and wrong, just different.

-- Paul, Texas

Rick and I find that when we use plans we get frustrated and lots of “oops”. When we build to the idea it is much more enjoyable.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Since I learned (a little bit about) SketchUp I waste a lot less wood. I still make my own designs, but doing the drawings really helps me work out the kinks that used to generate firewood.

I almost never use “plans” as in step-by-step-how-to instructions. However, almost all of my projects at least get a rough drawing in SketchUp or AutoCAD. This allows me to think through design problems before I have problems, and gives me a good reference for checking dimensions during a project. I’m pretty impatient and usually just want to start working the wood, but I find that a little preparation prevents a lot of frustration and wasted time in the shop.

-- http://www.north40custom.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

It seems like most people here are free builders, not using plans, and going by feel. which in an artistic way – is great.

but (also refering to kiwi1969 – it’s ok to be slower then the rest of us ;) lol) think of the simplicity of modifying an already drafted design to fit a different need? or heck – recreating an exact replica for the same customer? or for a different customer? can you re-tune all your ‘feelings’ and replicate a full scale dining set with curved legs, insets, veneers, and curved edges? seriously?

also- what if you need to collaborate with others on a project? how do you do that without plans (and without spending much time explaining everything you want/need)?

like everything in this world, there is a time and place for freeing yourself from plans and going by what feels right, and theres a time and place for detailed plans.

This is a good thread, and I want people to get more ideas about it rather than “I like using plans” or “I dont like using plans”...

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

to extend that idea, purplev, i feel like the dichotomy between artistic=no plans and construction=plans is a bit artificial (well, that’s an understatement actually).

did Jackson Pollock need a plan to paint his work? maybe, maybe not. did FLW need one to achieve his ideas? most definitely! Each one will find his own way of doing things, but I wouldn’t want to make anyone feel like creating detailed plans in any way necessarily detracts from artistic ambition, merit, value, etc. plans are just one more tool in the arsenal.

I echo Todd Clippengers comments

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

I concur with your point there AaronK – I did most definitely did not mean that using and having plans contradicts being artistic… the art comes from thinking out the project, whether it’ll be also put into printed paper, 3D modeling, or straight to the lumber.

Plans are just another representation of a project. in some instances it is a must have and nothing else can work without it , in other instances it is of little importance and is useless… all I’m saying is do not ditch one in favor of another – just open your mind, do your research, and understand the purpose for things. It might just come in handy one day.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I note a bit of misunderestanding regarding this Blog entry.
As I underestand, Rogue is expresing the frustration and contradition he felt at some point in his career, when confronted between his own feels of creative process and the “method” he received from the school.
He said: ”.....To be able to have the level of fluidity in wood that I needed however I knew I had to build a knowladge base that transended plans”
He is refering to the widely granted dogmatism in the schools, that consider the plans-making as the very first thing to be made when DESIGNING a building or a piece of furniture in this case. Schools often “spoil the child”. the most brilliant minds and creative persons are often spoiled with retrograde Academicisms.

The creative proces is a WIDE OPEN SPECTRUM of posibilities and ways to achieve a finished object, a piece of furniture in this case.

I recently built a piece of furniture based on plans. I think there is nothing wrong on that, on the contrary it was great, to see how numbers and lines on a paper, come alive in a tridimensional world. It was a piece refined for hundreds of craftsmen through hundreds of years, so scale, proporcion, beauty and function were in a level of perfection.

But something diferent is making a piece from scratch. that’s painful!!! giving life is painful in itself. more painfull is being hamstrung with methods and dogmas.

The creative process is endless: hundres of ways, posibilities and searches, so unique as unique every person is.

For some people doing plans works, I don’t disagree with that, but REDUCING space, forms, dimensions, scale, proporcions, color, light, movement, textures in a sheet of paper is very risky to me.

-- Francisco Luna, San Francisco Bay Area.