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Unisaw 34-804 #1: New old saw

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Blog entry by RCT posted 07-18-2012 12:31 PM 2487 reads 0 times favorited 14 comments Add to Favorites Watch
no previous part Part 1 of Unisaw 34-804 series Part 2: 1963 »

I got this Unisaw 34-804 after a 4.5 hour drive across the bridge/tunnel and up the eastern shore of Virginia and Maryland. Having Spent $600.00 for the saw. It also came with a biesemeyer T-square rip fence and a overarm blade guard. It unfortunately had a 3 phase Motor. Not having 3 phase in my house I went on the hunt for a single phase motor. So many things I did not know about motors. Searching for info was tedious, so many woodworking sites try to help but when you don’t know what to ask all answers are good. Well assured I had found the info I needed I ordered a motor it was delivered and of course had to be sent back as it was damaged in shipping and would not have worked as the Unisaw needs a different brace. When removing the old motor I saw that it had no ground wire hooked up (green wire wrapped around the other wires in the junction box) so I assumed this saw was not working when taken out of service. Dam I was going to use the money from its sale to help pay for the new motor. I cannot sale something knowing its not right so I find a motor shop near by that will fix it. They tell me that they can start work on the motor in an hour. Well 3 days later they call and say that the motor works fine and I can come get it. It had nothing wrong with it the green wire is not needed for this type of motor. Again the more you think you know. They did not charge me for testing showed me it working on one of their benches and apologized for the time it took can’t beet that and now I can sale it confident that it works.So that motor is good but I still don’t have 3 phase. I here about these VFD that can run a 3 phrase motor from single phases line. They are way too expensive for a 3hp motor. So the line to use to find a motor 3450(rpm for most table saws) TEFC (totally enclosed fan cooled for cabinet saws because the sawdust will fall right on the motor should be used on contractor saws as well but not as important as the motor on them is more out of the way) Single phase ( most of us don’t have 3 phase) 3hp (or the horse power rating your looking for) 56C ( this is the shape of the motor or the way the base bracket is oriented )
So (3450 tefc single 3hp 56C) if you use this as a search line you would get a grope of motors that will be good for a cabinet saw. Now if they are in your price range is up to you. Don’t be surprised if the prices vary widely. I’m talking $49.00 all the way up to $1800.00 and I cant tell what makes them different I was looking for a used motor thinking it would be cheaper but nope, You will find used ones that must use silver wire or something I don’t get it. I don’t have a motor as of today.

-- "Ya but what does he know anyhow?"



14 comments so far

View ratchet's profile

ratchet

1304 posts in 2541 days


#1 posted 07-18-2012 01:24 PM

Hang in there. Your persistence will be rewarded and you will be wiser for it in the end.

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1602 posts in 2216 days


#2 posted 07-18-2012 02:01 PM

I do not know what your budget is for a motor or VFD but a VFD will be the least expensive option. I dont know where you have looked but a good one should cost about $180 for a 3hp model. I currently have on my Oliver table saw and mounted it to the wall. The 3hp models will require 220V single phase or 3ph input, so if you have 220V available you should be good to go.

I am using, as most of the guys on OWWM that use VFD’s, are using the TECO FM50 line. They are cheap, price wise, and perform well.

Here is the 3hp model from factorymation
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.198/.f?sc=2&category=32

Dealers Electric
http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?PID=4541

Wiring is super easy, a monkey do it, I’m proof of that. Hopefully this helps. I think once you use a 3ph motor you will never go back to single phase. They are so much smoother, easier to work on, cheaper to operate and last forever. I also have some wiring diagrams of how to wire them and keep the factory switch. Let me know if you need any more help

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View RCT's profile

RCT

86 posts in 2505 days


#3 posted 07-18-2012 04:07 PM

I have read that you lose hp when converting with a VFD like 1/3 of the power is lost? is this true with this unit?
they clam that it’s not on some sites. All so with thinking that the motor was bad I have removed all that stuff off the saw not sure I can rewire the starter how it was. Enthusiasm bites again.

-- "Ya but what does he know anyhow?"

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1602 posts in 2216 days


#4 posted 07-18-2012 04:53 PM

You will NOT lose any hp with a VFD. You will lose it with a STATIC converter. A VFD is NOT a STATIC converter. As for the wiring you can use ANY switch to control the unit. So, the wiring does not need to be the same as factory, in fact it will need to change as the VFD uses a 24V control for external switch control.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View barecycles's profile

barecycles

253 posts in 1082 days


#5 posted 07-18-2012 05:14 PM

RCT…

If you’re interested, check out my review of the TECO JNEV-203-H1 here. This is the VFD I currently use on my Unisaw.

And MedicKen is correct, no HP loss with a VFD and it’s really not that difficult to install.

-- Sweeping up sawdust in Texas

View RCT's profile

RCT

86 posts in 2505 days


#6 posted 07-18-2012 05:44 PM

Ok now that I’m leaning to the VFD the shop that tested my motor said to be sure to only use 200VAC on this motor.
As in do not use 220. I’m not sure I understand this but may be that’s what all the extra stuff was for that was on the saw. The info I can find on motor starters states that it is just a switch but the box on the side of this motor was way more complex than just a switch

-- "Ya but what does he know anyhow?"

View NormG's profile

NormG

4566 posts in 1758 days


#7 posted 07-19-2012 12:02 AM

Wow, what a journey you have had. At least it was a nice drive with the view and all (I am in Richmond). Keep the head up, it will work out

-- Norman

View RCT's profile

RCT

86 posts in 2505 days


#8 posted 07-19-2012 12:13 AM

Well I ordered the TECO FM50 when it gets in I’ll be nagging you folks for help
Thanks

-- "Ya but what does he know anyhow?"

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1602 posts in 2216 days


#9 posted 07-19-2012 12:42 AM

it sounds like what you had on the side of the saw was either a magnetic starter or, if original the Rockwell LVC, low voltage control. It is a starter that uses overloads or heaters to protect the motor. A pic would be most helpful.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1602 posts in 2216 days


#10 posted 07-19-2012 12:45 AM

Here are a couple of different wiring diagrams I have for the control circuit of the VFD

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View Beginningwoodworker's profile

Beginningwoodworker

13347 posts in 2427 days


#11 posted 07-19-2012 12:45 AM

Congrats, pictures would be great!

-- CJIII Future cabinetmaker

View RCT's profile

RCT

86 posts in 2505 days


#12 posted 07-19-2012 03:17 PM

Here are the pics I just took


Trunnions & Arbor while cleaning with cleanser that cuts wood scum really fast

Switch it is really simple inside

Top of the starter?

Bottom of the starter?

The whole box

-- "Ya but what does he know anyhow?"

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1602 posts in 2216 days


#13 posted 07-19-2012 04:48 PM

What you have there is a magnetic starter. They are very common in 3 phase and a great way to protect the motor in case of an overload. This can do a better job of explaining the ins and outs of how they work than I can.

If you decide on a VFD the starter will become obsolete and all you will need is the switch you have pictured. The starter can actually be removed.

Any idea on the age of the saw? While it is down is a great time to look and replace bearings if the saw is pushing the 20 yr mark. The shelf life and working life of a sealed ball bearing is about 20 yrs. You might be able to get another few years from them but for me its cheap insurance.

Here are a couple of articles on cleaning and removing the internals in a unisaw.
http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/Unisaw%20Disassembly.ashx
http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/How%20to%20Properly%20Clean%20a%20Unisaw.ashx

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View RCT's profile

RCT

86 posts in 2505 days


#14 posted 07-19-2012 08:26 PM

got her all cleaned up serial number puts her at December 1984 the saw moves so well and was so clean in comparison to others I’ve looked at, along with that she came out of a working shop I think she may have been
tore down and refurbed this century. So now waiting on the FM50

-- "Ya but what does he know anyhow?"

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