Work(shop) in Progress #8: New Table Saw: Low Profile Riving Knife for Ridgid R4511

What did you use to cut the shape? Carbide Router Bit?

-- //FC - Round Rock, TX - "Experience is what you get just after you need it"

is that the grainite saw because if it is you are going to have problems

-- kosta brownsville brooklyn my home

sIKE – I used the Bosch RotoZip with the small wheel cutters to cut as close as I could to the final shape – the fact that those cutter wheels are so small, made it possible to get real close to the line. then I used the rotozip sanding spindle thingies… both tools I had to rotate through wheels (would break/just run out) and the sanding sleeves like crazy… but since I don’t really have much use for those anymore, this was a good opportunity to clean house.

kosta – yes, this is a granite top, if you’d go to the previous blog you’d see. and I must say your comment is just useless… unless you just said that out of spite- if you really ‘know’ of problems – sharing that info, and detailing “what those problems are” would be helpful, but just saying “you’ll have problems” doesnt really do much good… but thanks anyways. if you refer to the granite chipping ? yes, I know about that, and so far I haven’t had any issues with that – most likely it’ll happen either during install, or at the miter slot – I’m already past the install , so I’m just being careful with the miter slot not much more I can do. if you refer to the fact that I won’t have rust on it – that’s a great problem! cause I live in an area with high moisture.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Have you thought about using your router table and bit like this? Would just have to square up the corners and make sure you had a face shield….

-- //FC - Round Rock, TX - "Experience is what you get just after you need it"

Wow, Lev, you’re hardcore! Nicely done. Now you’re a machinist, if you weren’t already one :)

And what of this dark fence and throat plate wood? What is it? It looks really nice.

-- Gary, Los Angeles, video game animator

Kosta: I’ve got this saw and, I too, am wondering what these ‘problems’ are that you speak of. Overall, I love the saw.

Nice riving knife. I should make a template in cad for my little CNC. Thanks for the detailed pictures too.

-- Matt - My Websites - http://www.bestinwood.com - Hand Tools :: http://www.workshopgarage.com - Small Shops

Thanks for the responses.

sIKE, thanks for the link, I didnt even think about going that route (no pun intended). Gary – I’m not much of a machinist, and don’t attempt to be one, just wanted to get this done for the saw so that I can use it safely. I dont like the idea of metal shavings flying at me… :o)

Gary – the material for the zero clearance insert and fence is canvas phenolic- read my previous blog in this series about THAT experience. (gonna stick with wood).

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Hey does that saw blade have sharp teeth on it? If it does your gonna have problems… :>)
I just figured I would throw that meatball out there with no explanation or information to back it up..

Nice job on the riving knife….hey is that riving knife made out of aluminium? If it is…

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

Brad , thanks for the bundle of information there… I already spoke personally to the local lumber supplier, and have a written guarantee that if I accidently cut the lumber on the shaaaa’p teeth of the blade, he’ll replace the lumber for me no questions asked!

and I already know about all the trouble of using aluminum for riving knives… but thanks anyways ;o)

LOL

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

is the granite flatter then cast iron

-- kosta brownsville brooklyn my home

The Square shape definitely looks the best. It gives it a real custom look. Kinda racing look. Some times simplier just looks better. You,ve really done some nice add-ons.
So whats next on the trick-out list?
Does Ridgid offer a low profile knife as an accessory or did you not want to wait the weeks it may take to get one?
I have the TS3650 and absolutely love it. My wife thinks I love it more than her. Between you and me, she’s probably right.
One last thing, did the saw come with dust collection, because if it did …..,

So you think we killed it or should we keep on going ?

-- I've eaten so much sawdust in my life I now poop MDF. DIEGO OUT

My wife just told me, “Well at least you know how to turn your saw on.”

Well fellas.., I’m not going to lie to you, I have to give her props on that one.

Good one hunny, Good one.

-- I've eaten so much sawdust in my life I now poop MDF. DIEGO OUT

kosta. granite being flatter than cast iron is a very general idea. it really depends on the manufacturing process and it’s tolerances. BUT with that in mind – referring to the material of choice – machinists that use the most precise measurements use granite surfaces as a reference. granite does not get affected by environmental influences (humidity, temperature, etc) but it IS more brittle than cast iron.

diego – actually mine came with dust control…. I guess I should return it huh? actually what got me to feel comfortable buyng a ridgid machine was all the rave reviews from all you TS3660 owners… and I’m glad I listened to you guys – this is one heck of a machine. next on the list is upgrade the rip fence to a one piece rail + builtin drawers (similar to what they have on the new Unisaws… I really liked that idea)...but that might take a while, as I really want to work some wood, and get back on track with my projects (now that I have a safer saw to work with). wifey definitely earned her props on that one… def. did.

thanks for the comments

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Purp….
I had a chance to take a little trip to my local big orange box and low and behold they had one of the granite top saws on display! I was so excited to be able to check it out. I wanted to ask you..do you feel that the mobile base is sturdy enough and does it have good mobility? The saw I was looking at didn’t seem to be very mobile and the wheels didn’t lock very well in the up position, but upon further inspection i noticed that one of the wheels was actually bent 90 degrees out of position. It doesn’t surprise me that its broken being out there for everyone to mess with, but it is a little unnerving to see that it could bend that badly. They didn’t have the fence with the saw so I wasn’t able to check it out, but aside from the troubles with the mobile base otherwise I thought it is a real nice saw for the money.

-- David, South Windsor, CT "I love the smell of sawdust in the morning"

Brad. I’m not real surprised, people at HD usually don’t seem to know how to put those things together to begin with, no to mention that too many people come to HD (apparently) to “test how much force is required to break that tool”...

those legs and wheels are sturdy enough. when installed properly they are as easy to operate as a well oiled machine, and are smooth to roll around (my floors are not straight nor smooth). the lock holds well, and once you unlock it and bring the saw down, all 4 legs are contacting the floor making is more stable then those that use 3 wheels (where 2 wheels always stay in contact with the floor).

yes- it is definitely a nice saw, and even more so for it’s price.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

This is a must try idea great info. PurpLev, and congrats on your new T-saw good luck on all your future projects…thanks for the idea…Blkcherry

I bought this saw, too. I like what you did for the riving knife. I haven’t gotten quite as far as you have; I’ve had trouble getting the right wing installed. Gardner in Ohio supplies parts for Ridgid, and had to try three times to ship a new right wing. It STILL won’t pull flush with the main table, and I had to shim it .040” in front. It is proud by 027” in back, which required shimming the rear rail on the main table and left wing. I added a four-foot, 1/8” steel strap to give some support for the rear rail, since the split design offers no mechanical support to the wings.

I found Home Depot, Ridgid, and Gardner to be very helpful with this problem, although Gardner seems to have a hard time packing these properly. The wing weighs 52 pounds. The first two came wrapped in two layers of bubble wrap, stuffed into an oversized box, and were padded with a few pieces of newspaper. The first arrived in pieces; the second was chipped. The third was better packed. The Gardner quality control person called on the third one, and followed up; a high level of service. It seems they get these wings in bulk, unpadded, stacked on a pallet, from the manufacturer. He said they intend to pre-pack the remaining wings so this doesn’t recur.

GARDNER SELLS THE BELT, SHIPPED, FOR ABOUT $23. It’s a poly-v belt, 6-ribbed, 29.5 inches long.

A carefully planed hardwood spline helped stiffen the two-piece front rail.

A Freud Premier Fusion 10” 40-tooth general-purpose blade worked extremely well on plywood with a thin veneer face—no tearout whatsoever.

Recommendation? I’d have to give it a qualified one, to be sure. BUT YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. It seems like apples and oranges to compare it to the Steel City, at what—$1300?

-- Now, where did I put those bandaids?

glasseyes, sounds like the problem wasn’t with the wing, but with the main granite table top – maybe the threaded inserts on the right side weren’t installed properly causing the right wing to be toublesome to flush with the main table?

As for the belt – if it’s from Gardner, I assume its the same belt that came with the saw. it looks like a decent quality belt, and good to know they carry a replacement should one need it. from what I hear from others Gardner does provide good service, which is another good thing about the Ridgid tools.

P.S. I wasn’t comparing it with the Steelcity $1300 saw (#35900G) but with their newer models 35920 and 35930 – which is the same as the ridgid – I presume all 3 are coming from the same production line.

blackcherry – you’re welcome, I actually posted the template for this riving knife as a PDF on the ridgid forums.. I couldn’t do it here, since you can’t post PDFs on LJ… let me know if you want it, I can also email it to you.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Hi Purplev;

Very nice job.

Glad to see how seriously you take the need for safety.

Your finger will thank you!

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

PurpLev, I’m pretty sure it was the wing. The T-channels underneath the main table and wings were not cut into the granite at the same distance from the front edge on all three pieces (they differed by roughly 1/16th of an inch).

I only mentioned the belt from Gardner because I couldn’t find any other source that could supply a replacement belt, just as you mentioned. I don’t know how poly-v belts are specified.

Thanks for the infromation about the newer Steel City saws—I wasn’t aware of them.

I couldn’t find any aluminum sheet stock locally; where did you get yours? (I cut up a damaged aluminum yardstick, and it doesn’t look anywhere near as nice as yours turned out!)

-- Now, where did I put those bandaids?

Thanks Lee, as I mentioned some time ago, after getting used to working with a riving knife, it’s hard to give it up, and in my case – not gonna happen.

glasseyes, I got my aluminum on eBay – like you, I couldn’t locate anything local to me (I’m sure I could, I’m just lazy, and don’t really have the time nor energy for that, eBay was just too easy). just look for 1/8” aluminum plate (since a full sheet is too much of an overhead).

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I’ve looked at every photo and parts drawing of the Steel City saws that I could locate. The riving knife setup —from the clamp, to the bracket, to the base of the knives themselves, looks identical to the Ridgid R4511, so I took a chance—I called Steel City and ordered the 2.5 mm and 3.0 mm riving knives. They were $11 each, plus $3.95 credit card charge and $8.00 shipping. I’ll let everyone know if they fit, or if I just threw away 34 bucks.

Part # SC10150 for the 2.5 mm knife, SC10151 for the 3.0 mm
Phone # to order Steel City parts: 1-877-724-8665

-- Now, where did I put those bandaids?

glasseyes, keeps us posted how that works for you, some people on the ridgidforums took that road before, and found that the SC parts were slightly thicker at the base, and wouldn’t fit into the slot on the trunnion of the Ridgid – they had to sand it down to fit.

I would think that it should fit as it seems like it’s the same saw indeed. even more, there are 4 screws that hold the bracket for the knife, and I think they can be adjusted for a tighter/looser hold on the knife, so thats another possibility.

Also other’s have noted that Steel City wouldn’t sell you the parts unless you provided them with your saw’s serial number to make sure it’s for a SC saw and not another brand… what the h3ll? isn’t it about selling something for a profit to someone that is interested in paying for it? glad to hear it has become easier to get those parts though.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

The Steel City riving knives fit just fine. You can sand the bottom if you want to, but it’s easy to just back off the four screws on the riving knife clamp, slide in the thicker knife, then re-tighten them until you get a snug slip-fit. The locking knob, by it’s design, puts plenty of pressure on both the knife and the plate to hold everyting in place.

Regarding ordering them—I just told the guy at Steel City that I needed both the knives for the 35900 series saws. If they want the serial #, just tell them it’s too far to the shop!

-- Now, where did I put those bandaids?

Purp,

Nice job with the photos and accompanying explanations. Have you done any checking of the blade [miter slot] alignment or rotor run out? What do you think of the miter saw alignment adjustment feature? I found out today they have one of these at my local HD so plan to go look at it tomorrow.

Dick

-- It isn't as easy as the demos make it seem.

azor – arbor runout on mine was 0.000” – not bad. blade to miter slot wasn’t applicable as I took the table off when I assembled the saw (see previous blog), but since the blade is mounted to the cabinet, it was really easy to align the table/miter slot to the blade.

This is a great saw! definitely worth getting at homedepot this week for $450 (thats what I paid for mine) out the door! comparable saws in the market are at the $700+

I will write a review shortly. but I recommend you get the saw now and take advantage of the HD powertool sale!

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I just called Steel City to order the Riving Knives. I got a pleasant response but was informed both knives are back ordered for 35 days. He told me they will have an on-line ordering system up and running in a week so I am going to wait. I also have a email request in at Lee Way Workshop who makes his own knives and probably has one to fit.

-Ed

I went into HD a few days ago. The sale must be off. They wanted $599 for it. They want $80 to deliver it. The wings were poorly aligned to the table, but even the sales guy thought it to be just poor assembly.
Purp, Thanks for the alignment info. I enjoy your blogs. Keep it up.

Dick

-- It isn't as easy as the demos make it seem.

azor: sale is not off yet (ends May 6).

The saw is 599, which you would get a 75.00 discount off of. If you break 600, you get 150 off.

If you have nothing else large to buy, “pneumatic fasteners” are included in the final total to get the instant rebate. So pick up a cheap set of brads (I found 18ga “pins” by porter cable for 4 bux) to put yourself over 600.00.

Whole she-bang cost me 453+tax.

FOLLOW-UP ON INSTALLING THE RIVING KNIVES—

I previously suggested slip-fitting the clamp bracket. DONT. BAD IDEA! Mine shifted after jjust a few cuts. Sand it to fit!

-- Now, where did I put those bandaids?

I checked out the previous Ridgid model for a student of mine and the fence was as smooth as butter and locked very nice. I really like my magnetic feather boards so granite might not work for me.

-- Jim from Heirloom Woodshop Southern Oregon

a1jim, I think the fence on the ridgid contractor table saw is easier and smoother to work, and locks better. just based on the design (the new one is t-square, with the usual side effects). tThat said – this saw proves itself to be a great investment. def. more than good enough for my serious-hobbyst needs. the fence on this one is also smooth, and locks tight in place. my experience has taught me though, not to lock it all the way down, as this will cause the t-square head to skew the fence slightly to the left and move it from it’s set distance. but if you lock it just enough to hold it in place, it’ll lock tight, and not shift. as far as using magnetic devices – cast iron is def. the way to go. I don’t have any, so do have a problem with the granite, which holds itself great so far – nice smooth, and almost maintenance free. (I did give it a nice buff of wax to make it extra smooth – which it is).

glasseyes – I’m surprised it shifts?!? did the screws came off? or what exactly happened?

azor – I believe the sale is till the 5/5 … worth checking out like chris said – those $3 pneumatic nails (which I use anyways on a regular basis) dropped the price another $75… to final of $450. as I stated in previous blog – I chose to have it delieved to my place for a flat rate of $65 (HD flat rate delivery for x amounts of miles from store – gets higher as you are further away) – but considering the shipping rates of a Sawstop ($300-$400) and extra tailgate fees of $75 (normal on all machinery anywhere) this is peanuts.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

PurpLev, I haven’t had time to take it back apart yet. Just looking at it, I can’t tell of the whole bracket slipped (I had to adjust it to get the knife aligned), or the clamping plate loosened. I just don’t think it was smart of me to mess with the design. Third, I’m not sure the Freud Fusion blade is a true full-kerf design. The riving knife seems awfully snug in the kerf, even in manmade materials. I’m going to recheck the bracket alignment, then bolt down the clamp pad and sand the end of the knife. I may sand the entire side of the knife for clearance, as well, but that would be the last thing I’d try. I’ll follow up when I’ve got more to tell.

-- Now, where did I put those bandaids?

Purp, How are your knives working? Have you thought about adding a kick back guard to them?

-- Debt is nothing more than the 21st Century's form of slavery.

Topamax – they work fantastic. I use a forrest WWII regular kerf, so the 1/8” material works for me- although if I would do it again, I’ll go with a material which is 0.090” thick for a more versatile compatibility with other blades.

I use this mostly as is with no pawls since I use it for both through and non-through cuts without the need to modify guards. the riving knife concept prevents kick back from happening, so there shouldn’t be a need for the pawls, although they are a good extra reassurance. the full blade guard has the pawls on it – this is just my low profile knife.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.