Router Table #1: Design ideas, need some feedback

Hi my name is Jacques and I have a woodworking problem well so she says anyway….
Now on to the topic of you router table, to answer the question rhetorical or not here goes,” no you are not going overboard” torsion table designs are here to stay and you will enjoy the benefits of a “flat” surface for many years to come, well worth spending the time to build it correctly.
Nice one by the way.

-- All bleeding will eventually stop.

I would think that if it’s going to be a torsion box, the bottom would have to be covered as well. I have a Woodpeckers Aluminum plate plus the additional 8 pc ringset, 2 come with the plate. I highly recommend the plate. For a router I bought a Porter-Cable 890, it has a quick release to drop the motor out to change bits, and it also has above table hieght adjustment, but you gotta buy the overpriced $30 hieght adjustment tool to do it, so I just adjust the hieght from under the table, it’s not hard to do at all and is probably just as fast. The top is 1 1/4” MDF, laminated on both sides and edged with a rubber bumper, it was office cubicle desktop material.

Thanks guys, Torsion box it is then. it makes sense to enclose the bottom, as that will give it more rigidity.

Woodchuck – eventually I’d like to get the woodpeckers router lift, I think it’s the best out there, but for now I need to watch my expenses for a while, so I need to find a temporary solution since if I’m spending $100 on the woodpeckers plate alone, I might as well shell out the difference and get the lift with it . I also cannot afford getting another router right now, so the porter cable is our of the questions although its a nice one to have permanently installed in a table. my bosch does have above the table height adjustment that I can incorporate to any setup I make (drill an extra hole for the height screw).

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

I have the woodpecker quicklift in my router table. You simply cannot beat it. Above the table height dial-in and quick lift above the table for changing bits – I just never, ever have to go below the table for anything.

But yeah, it was expensive – I spent more on the Quicklift than on the router table and router together (see the story in my projects, I really lucked out on the router table).

So, if you don’t get a lift, get a plate the same size and make it removable. The router is not accessable enough under the table, particularly given the design you present here. With a removable plate, you can always lift the router out of the table for access and eventually replace it with a quicklift, which is what I consider ideal. They make simple router plates exactly the same cutout as the lift. In fact, they have several different dimensions on the lifts to support different manufacturers standard cutouts.

For several years I put up with a simple router table that had the router permanently fastened below the table and a small hole for bits with different size throats for different bits – usable, but what a pain!

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

It is not a true torsion box but the grid still works similar to a torsion box if it is connected at several points. It looks like overkill to me but that is not going to hurt anything. The project is not very big and you are not really costing yourself any extra in materials. You are cutting a few more pieces but that is not really a big issue because to make a grid is production style workflow.

I have a philosophy on building projects for the shop. This is the perfect place to hone your skills and the shop makes a good proving ground to see how certain styles of construction hold up over time.

The torsion box is not really as necessary to create a flat table as most people think. None of my shop tables have torsion box tops and they are all very flat and they are old enough that they would have sagged by now. You can check them out in my shop photos or go to my website and look at my shop (same photos.)

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

If that top wieghs as much as you describe, maybe you will need to timber frame the cabinet, lol. Could be a cool design if done right.

Thanks Todd, I do believe this Grid is an overkill, but like you said – it’s a small scale, and will not hurt anyone, and I’m not really losing much material here.

I have the philosophy like yours that the shop is the best place to train yourself on techniques and designs – see my Hand Tool Cabinet Blog

EEngineer, I have my eye on the Woodpecker PRL2 lift, but it’ll be a while since I can get that, and their “simple” plates are ~$100 which is not cheap either – definitely if you consider it “temporary”. I think I’ll try to make a similar size plate our of phenolic board (I have another phenolic board that is 5/8” thick) that I can use as a temporary solution while still being able to lift it up for bit changes. could you do me a favor and verify that the lift plate size is what they advertise it to be (I think it’s 9 1/4” x 11 3/4”)? I’d really appreciate it. Thanks again

Woodchuck – haha, dont make me change my entire design! lol… I can lift a 45lbs weight in each hand, but this top was difficult. maybe it’s because of it’s large size that it felt harder to lift…

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Yeah, well the top will lose some wieght after you chop a big hole in it for the plate. lol.

They make two different sizes – 8 1/4” X 11 3/4” and 9 1/4” X 11 3/4”. I don’t remember which mine is. I do remember measuring the cutout and finding it was exactly the quoted size. I’ll check this for you when the weather gets nicer.

You aren’t necessarily stuck with a woodpecker plate. My router table was originally cut for a Jessem plate (I think theirs start at $50) and one of those sizes is the same as the Jessem plates.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

That is true Woodchuck, I will also trim it from the 35” current width, to a 28” wide top, which will reduce another large amount of weight. (I might use the extra cutoff piece as fences material)

Great EEngineer, that would be most helpful, just to be on the safe size before I’m cutting the wrong size hole (I can always transform this table top to a counter top with a builtin trash hole. I just checked and it does seem like the JessEm plates are similar in size (9.1/4×11.1/4) maybe I’ll go that route, or … just make my own… I guess I have options

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Hey PurpLev,
Remember, if you box the router inside a cabinet and don’t have enough ventilation, it will burn out. I lost one router to this situation. I modified the cabinet with a dedicated dust collector, and while it kept the router cool, it did not do a good job of evacuating the dust, since most of the dust was generated above the router opening.
While it is nothing to write home about, my new table (see workshop pictures) is just a double layup of MDF with laminate on a rockler base. It throws the sawdust around, but that’s what the shopvac is for.

Sincerely,

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

Thanks Tom, I will have dust collection setup for this, and this will show in the next few sketchup models, right now I’m still focused on the top = plate and support. once that’s dialed in, everything else will follow. I do plan to incorporate dust ports for under/inside AND over the table that will both go to my dust collector.

If anyone can help me get the exact dimensions of a Woodpecker/pinnacle lift plate I would really appreciate it. width, length, depth, and the radius of the corners (radius can be matched with drill bit size/hole) this way I can make a template, and create a temporary plate that could be swapped later with an identical size lift plate – I’ll also make a Sketchup model, and post it here for others to use does anyone happen to have any such templates scanned for 1-1 scale?

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Take a look at my blog on the build out of my router table. I cover my modifications to the classic Norm Table and the reasoning behind why I did what I did, it might help you out with yours.

I love mine btw! If you look at my project you will see that I am using mine with a Incra Orginal Jig.

-- //FC - Round Rock, TX - "Experience is what you get just after you need it"

Just an observation, but why do you have so much table space on the “back” side of the top? Most cutting takes place on the side towards the miter slot and on the right side as you face the table. To me, it would make more sense to have the majority of table surface space in the “front”. If I missed something, I apologize for the comment.

PurpLev,
I have the Woodpecker Quicklift, will that do? If so, I could get you some measurements tomorrow when I’m back in the shop.

Tom

-- Anybody can become a woodworker, but only a Craftsman can hide his mistakes.

lew,

Are you asking about the bulge in the back? It is for a Incra Original Jig, instead of having a offset table to accommodate this type of fence I added the bulge to the back to allow for the Incra Jig the space it needed to travel. As for the placement of the plate/router itself that is where Norm put it.

-- //FC - Round Rock, TX - "Experience is what you get just after you need it"

I see now, I’m not that familiar with the Incra. Makes perfect sense now.

There are lots of great ideas for router table design on Lumberjocks. Here’s one more to look at:

Make sure to check out the blog associated with my router table (the link is in the project post).

I don’t think I would want a torsion box-style top on a router table. I made mine out of two laminated pieces of MDF. It is solid, nice and heavy, and VERY flat.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.blakeweberwoodworking.com

Actually I just went back and looked at your drawings more closely. Its not a torsion box, but just support for a phenolic top.

I actually agree with Todd. The supports are a little overkill. As long as they are not so far apart that they will allow sagging in between it is enough. That entire grid on the right side could be eliminated in my opinion. That section isn’t even supporting the weight of a router. It will be fine. The commercial versions are just one rectangle of support around the edge of the table and maybe one cross member. I understand that your top is heavy, but Phenolic is also very rigid. Its not going to sag between one foot of open space below it.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.blakeweberwoodworking.com

Tom – Thank you for the offer, that would be fantastic if you could get me those measurements! I believe that all the woodpecker/pinnacle plates are of the same size, I just need to verify precisely what those are, and also verify the thickness of the plate, and the radius of the corners (those things are nowhere to be found online) – much appreciated!!!

sIKE – thanks for the link, I checked your blog – Nicely done! As far as cabinet construction, I have my own design,which I will post later on when I get to it, I just needed to finalize a decision on the top, since everything else will rely on that choice. I like your choice of electric switch and miter slot (I noted those before) and will most likely use the same.

lew, the design is an Offset table to accommodate an Incra Jig positioning fence, if you’re not familiar with it – I highly recommend checking out www.incra.com website and watching their demos – I think their fences are top notch, brilliant (and simple) idea, and nicely put together!

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Thanks Blake, your blog has been on my fav. list for a long time now. eventually I would like to go ahead with the same 17” LS positioner. speaking of which – I would like to plan ahead, and make sure my top will be able to accommodate for the 17” LS – how much distance do you need between the LS mounting base and the router bit when the positioner is extended all the way? and how deep is the mounting base (I’d rather have it installed so that it doesnt protrude from the back of the top, but flush, as on your top)?

Maybe I’ll ease off the grid construction on the back side, and make it less complicated (maybe just keep the 4 long support bars).

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Woodpeckers sells a MDF template and router bit to route out the opening for their plates. I bought them when I bought the plate. Perfect fit. The Woodpeckers plate is 3/8” thick, I went just a hair more for set screw leveling

Thanks Woodchuck!

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

Lev,
Thanks for the models by the way. The guys at Incra are pleased too.

A few thoughts on some of the points raised here:

1. Torsion box – Cool, but delete the two longer slats on the right of the table. Keep the short ones.

2. Before Router Lift – In my first R-Table I mounted my router under an off-cut piece of 8mm thick perspex that I set into the table. I strongly recommend that you include some sort of removable plate, even if it is 1/2” plywood. I think it would make life difficult if you have to mount and dismount the router from under the table each time. Just make sure it’s smaller than the router lift you intend buying later – that way you don’t have to replace the table top.

3. Router Lift – I was tempted to buy the PRL2, but I bought the PRL instead. Why? Because the PRL lifing mechanism locks automatically when you remove the crank handle. With the PRL2 you must remember to lock the lift before working. I’d rather not thake the chance. I have a simplified model of the PRL if you’d like it. The dimensions of the top are accurate to +- 0.5 mm, but the corner radius is pure guess. (I bought their template for accuracy) I have only a reserved space underneath the top rather than the mechanism. It work for my design needs.

4. Dust collection – In my new table I’m placing dust collection in the fence, and below the table. My router will be housed in a cabinet as I think yours will be. The cabinet door on mine will have at least 2mm gap all around to allow cooling air to flow past the router even when a workpiece blocks the table-top hole.

Good luck with the design and the manufacture.

-- I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.

Thanks Zac, based on peoples responses here which strengthen my original thoughts, I’ll simplify the grid design. I thought also about making a ‘smaller then router lift’ plate, but I’d rather cut the top once (not for worries that I might ruin the top – just cause I’m lazy). very good point about the dust collection you made about leaving a gap in the door – I didn’t think about those times when I’ll have the wood completely close the router bit opening – note taken.

I too have thought about the issue with the locking mechanism on the PRL2, but really want the ability to bring the router up in a sec for bit changes without having to crank the precision handle back and forth, and the only other solution for quick bit changes is the Quick-Lift which I really don’t like since the router is mounted on 2 posts that are on the same side of the plate which in the long run I believe will cause the router to get out of plumb. I think each lift mechanism out there has it’s limitations, and what I like about the PRL2 is: 1. quick release for bit changes, 2. thumb wheel – no extra tools required, 3. no drive chains – less pieces that can have issues. from reviews I’ve seen the lock mechanism isnt too big of an issue, but it’s definitely something to keep an eye for. it’s a matter of pros/cons and the PRL2 in my opinion wins compared to others (for my preferences).

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

A further thought on the Router Plate:

I don’t have absolute faith in someone else’s measurements. I don’t know if that person is as picky as me, and I also don’t know if their measuring instruments are exactly the same as mine. When last was your tape measure calibrated LOL Mine never has been. I know for a fact that my two 5m tape measures are at least 0.5mm per 1m different from each other. I always stay with one tape measure for an entire project for that reason.

I know you don’t want to shell out for the Lift now, but I suggest you buy their template now before you cut into your nice new phenolic top. You don’t want to find out that the hole is 0.5mm oversize after you buy the Lift.

Maybe I’m just picky, but I’m and engineer – I’m supposed to be LOL

-- I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.

FWIW – I can’t see spending big bucks for a router lift.
My router table, http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/JohnGray/blog/5615, I did not use a lift. When I want to change or recalibrate a bit I simply unplug the router, remove the plate and router, take it to the bench, and do whatever is needed. When it’s on the bench it’s easier to see what you are doing than having to fiddle with it in the table.

-- Only the Shadow knows....................

John, I think that It’s a matter of convenience and personal preference mostly. for me I find it much easier to be able to sneak up on cuts and fine tune depth of cuts with a turn of a dial as opposed to getting to the router, unlocking the depth fastener, changing height of cutter, locking router again, and repeat… Also to change bits without having to pull the router out, taking it out of the plate base, and returning everything to it’s proper place… just a matter of convenience I guess and personal preference.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

make your own lift plate a lift plate is useless in any case unless you can change tools-bits from above the table get a router bit extension this will help good luck Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

OK, so based on your feedback guys (Thank you so much) I think I’ll make my own phenolic plate and see how that will work for the time being. I’ll make it the same size as the pinnacle/woodpecker plate so that if I ever want to upgrade it’ll be an easy swap. I placed the plate 6” from the left side of the table which I think will be a good amount of support, and will also give me enough space on the right size to fit an Incra LS17” in the future should I decide to do so. the fit will be marginal, but it will be possible.

I also removed most of the grid support, and stuck with 4 lateral ribs that will help even out the support for the top and all. and I also moved the middle panel more to the left – reducing the size of the cabinet for the motor (doesn’t really need that much room, and will make dust extraction easier and more efficient) and enlarging the other side that will be made for storage/drawers:

Note the “place holder” on top of the table top – this is a template I made from Incra online info regarding space required for the LS17” positioner – looks like it’ll fit in there, maybe protrude a bit from the back, but there’s little I can do about that.

Thank you everyone that posted, and offered insights and suggestions!

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

If you haven’t started construction yet I have one more idea for you. Construct a basic torsion frame for the top, attach it to the top and surface mount your router, then hinge the whole thing. It’s a design I saw in “Woodworking With The Router” by Bill Hylton, an excellent book. Of course you’d have to find or make some pretty serious supports for when the top is lifted, but that shouldn’t be too hard.

Just a thought.
-Sean

Thanks Sean, I actually saw someone online doing a similar thing and thought it’s a cool idea ( the hinge), I may just incorporate that into the top as I have 3 spare door hinges laying around. About the Torsion-box idea – since I already have the thick top, I dont think I’ll want to replace it with a torsion-box, and since it’s phenolic board and not wood, it’ll be impossible to glue this thing properly as part of a torsion box (and In my case, I dont think this will be necessary), so I’ll stick with the support beams under, and the top resting on those.

-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

That’s pretty much what I meant, sorry I was unclear. My idea is a torsion box frame underneath your phenolic top, something just to make sure everything stays nice and straight. Perhaps I should just call it a frame like you. :)

I built a router table which you can see at www.woodshopics.com. I wanted a longer table to support my work so I took one of Norm Abrams plans and altered it as you can see if you visit my website. It’s build mainly from 3/4” maple plywood with some maple trim. I used Woodpecker’s router lift which I have been very happy with. I was concerned about building the fence out of MDF but it has worked perfectly. First, I purchased the fine grain MDF and covered the appropriated faces with formica. The fence is accurate, easy to move and will handle tall stuff. The extra plate on the table is nice to house a router with a roundover bit which I seem to use all the time. I have an extra blank plate with I can insert in place of the router plate with the router with a roundover bit. Any questions, you can email me at woodshopbits@gmail.com

-- Dave, Golf...Woodworking...more Golf, www.woodshopics.com