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Treasure Box - Series #2 - Post #14: Cutting bone

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Blog entry by Patricelejeune posted 10-23-2014 01:52 AM 2377 reads 2 times favorited 27 comments Add to Favorites Watch
« Part 13: Top incrustation Part 14 of Treasure Box - Series #2 - Post series Part 15: Inside of the box "Frisage" (parquetry) »

For those who follow this thread, you know we have been struggling on dying bone.

We may have found the solution, at least one of them.

Here is a test piece that seems to be dyed all the way through

To help the dye to penetrate all the way through the bone I decided to dye the pieces already cut. I had my papers already prepared from the start waiting for the solution

The intended green bone pieces were highlighted in green (of course) on the drawing.

I cut in 4 layers the bone like the rest of the marquetries with a mask on to not breath the dust and slowly, very slowly, with a lot of blades

I had to select the bone veneers which had roughly the same shape to avoid voids and holes to make my packs.

The bone are identified with a letter, L for left panel B for back, T for top etc… That way it is easier to find where they go.

Even being carefull I had some recut to do, some because the blades dulled to much in the middle of cutting a piece resulting in horribly cut pieces, and some because there were defects in one or more of the bone layer

Cut and recut until all the green spots are covered.

The good thing is that those messed up pieces of bones are now used to sample the colors.

Next time, hopefully, I will have some green bone inlaid marquetry to show!!

Thank you for following!

-- Patrice lejeune



27 comments so far

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

7165 posts in 2259 days


#1 posted 10-23-2014 04:47 AM

Looks like progress.
What is the dye you are using and is it available in the “New World”? Same question on the bone, although I think I know where to get that. I’d like to try some of this but the cutting sounds very arduous.

Thanks for posting this. It is important stuff to at least a few of us.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View Sodabowski's profile

Sodabowski

2308 posts in 2294 days


#2 posted 10-23-2014 06:01 AM

Hmmm… I wonder what your secret sauce is… As a scientist, I would have gone the “hot & under pressure” way to stain them, but you never know. I’m quite curious to see what worked that great for you :)

-- Thomas - Pondering the inclusion of woodworking into physics and chemistry classes...

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

3392 posts in 1665 days


#3 posted 10-23-2014 08:04 AM

Bone you say?

Come to think of it I thought I saw a three legged cow near your place, and then was that the next door nieghbour go hopping by.

I shall have to look into it further.

An interesting exercise, better hop to it.

-- Regards Robert

View RogerBean's profile

RogerBean

1602 posts in 2415 days


#4 posted 10-23-2014 12:30 PM

Patrice,
Good to hear you’ve solved the dyed bone issue. I can visualize the difficulty cutting four layers of bone, but you seem to have achieved your usual precision cuts in spite of the difficulty. These boxes are truly going to be spectacular.
Roger

-- "Everybody makes mistakes. A craftsman always fixes them." (Monty Kennedy, "The Checkering and Carving of Gunstocks", 1952)

View Patricelejeune's profile

Patricelejeune

364 posts in 1381 days


#5 posted 10-23-2014 04:17 PM

Thank you guys.
I used a simple cold bath of alcohol with lithographs dyes based on copper for the blue and chrome for the yellow. It is not very traditional so I am still experimenting to find how they were doing it the old way, but at least it works and is metal based so no fast colors.
The bone and other “exotic” materials like horn mother of pearl etc we buy in France at http://www.atelierdelaruelle.com/?langue=en
They provide very good quality materials.
The guy you saw hopping in our neighborhood is Patrick, we hope to raise the price of our pieces by putting parts of us in our work, and I suggested we started with him first!

-- Patrice lejeune

View Sodabowski's profile

Sodabowski

2308 posts in 2294 days


#6 posted 10-23-2014 05:25 PM

(super adresse Patrice, merci beaucoup!!!)

-- Thomas - Pondering the inclusion of woodworking into physics and chemistry classes...

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

3392 posts in 1665 days


#7 posted 10-24-2014 09:45 PM

Love your work it has some unbelievable detail and procsses and your sense of humour !!

Could have the CSI guys excited if they check out your trash can !

-- Regards Robert

View JoeMcGlynn's profile

JoeMcGlynn

219 posts in 1815 days


#8 posted 10-24-2014 11:55 PM

Wow. The boxes are going to be spectacular Patrice!

Any concerns about the dye messing up the shape of the parts you’ve cut?

-- Blog: http://mcglynnonmaking.wordpress.com/

View Patricelejeune's profile

Patricelejeune

364 posts in 1381 days


#9 posted 10-25-2014 07:11 PM

Thank you.

The CSI techs will mostly find sawdust and cat litter…

I am not concerned by the deformation of the pieces as they are bone, very stable to humidity not like wood.
I would not to that with wood pieces piece buy piece but it is possible to do it if stack cut. When we did our videos for the Art Institute of Chicago I did the Roentgen style and technique marquetry where the wood is stained afterward.

-- Patrice lejeune

View Chuck Walker's profile

Chuck Walker

9 posts in 1315 days


#10 posted 11-17-2014 01:24 AM

Patrice,
Somehow, LJ forgot to mention this new post to me. Probably my ignorance of the inner workings of the site.

Some weeks back, I happened on a site given to medieval painting and colors. A page dealing with dying bone is at this click
Unfortunately the last post was five years ago and the results of soaking his bone in verdigris or Copper acetate were never posted. I sent a comment to inquire but with no response. I offer it for your reference purposes.

Your latest effort to obtain a green looks good. Did you use the Copper sulfate?

Chuck Walker

-- Chuck - Nothing tried, nothing botched, nothing learned!

View Patricelejeune's profile

Patricelejeune

364 posts in 1381 days


#11 posted 11-17-2014 09:48 AM

Oh man, i better be carefull when answering with my phone or table that the auto correct does not mess up my english even more than I do on my own…

Thank you chuck for this post, I did not find it before. Everything is interested. I will definately carry on testing until I find a good solution. The solution I found is not totally traditional but it has copper type sulfate and chorm oxyde of some kind.

Cheers

Patrice

-- Patrice lejeune

View Sodabowski's profile

Sodabowski

2308 posts in 2294 days


#12 posted 11-17-2014 04:10 PM

@ Chuck: the guy is half wrong, verdigris (from the french “vert-de-gris”) is copper carbonate, not copper acetate. BUT copper carbonate is soluble in acetic acid (ie vinegar), so that’s possibly why he mixed up a bit. I have both here at home (I made quite a bunch of copper carbonate last year by means of electrolysis) so I can try it and post about it.

-- Thomas - Pondering the inclusion of woodworking into physics and chemistry classes...

View Patricelejeune's profile

Patricelejeune

364 posts in 1381 days


#13 posted 11-17-2014 07:26 PM

Oh yes! You can try, global effort is more productive!
The problem with the vinegar is it destroys the bone, so… I will try again with the copper carbonate i got and less aggresive vinegar.

-- Patrice lejeune

View Sodabowski's profile

Sodabowski

2308 posts in 2294 days


#14 posted 11-17-2014 09:39 PM

That’s an easy one to solve: put enough vinegar to dissolve most of the carbonate, but not all of it. As long as you have some carbonate residue, it means all the H+ ions from the acid are gone (when the C02 bubbling stops) and there only remains copper acetate, which won’t attack the bone. I put a small 2mm piece in it just after posting my message, I’ll let it sit overnight and check tomorrow how it works.

-- Thomas - Pondering the inclusion of woodworking into physics and chemistry classes...

View Patricelejeune's profile

Patricelejeune

364 posts in 1381 days


#15 posted 11-18-2014 10:29 AM

Great. Let us know. I am in europe right now but will carry on the experiments on our side ASAP!

-- Patrice lejeune

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