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Shaker Night Stand #6: Pretty please ... with a glue-up on top?

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Blog entry by NBeener posted 12-28-2009 10:41 PM 1574 reads 0 times favorited 20 comments Add to Favorites Watch
« Part 5: I lost count. Something like tenon a row (bad pun) Part 6 of Shaker Night Stand series Part 7: Drawers -- it's something ;-) »

Remember me? I’m the guy who has never run more than about a mile, and just signed up for his first marathon.

That’s just a metaphor, but … I’ve knocked out a handful of pretty easy ww projects, and am now working on an M&T set of Shaker Night Stands … loaded with things I’ve never done before.

So … today brought my first-ever glue-up for Night Stand #1’s top:

and

Every hobby/pastime has a million questions for which there is no right answer. I have a feeling I’m about to ask a couple:

1) With TiteBond III, do I really have enough time to put glue on both edges of the joint before assembling them? What I did was to glue and join, then glue and join, then glue and join. It was more difficult, but … I played it safe.

2) The squeeze-out. Leave it (on the premise that I’m going to wind up sanding it down after it’s all dried, anyway) or remove it with a wet cloth as you clamp it up?

Again … if these are the woodworking equivalent of asking about religion … or the bicycle equivalent of asking about chain lube … or … the motorcycle equivalent of asking about motor oil … just tell me … and I’ll flip a coin ;-)

-- -- Neil



20 comments so far

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1830 days


#1 posted 12-28-2009 10:53 PM

May have just answered my own questions. From the Titebond website:

Titebond II

Application Guidelines Application temperature: Above 55°F. Open assembly time: 5 minutes (70°F./50%RH) Total assembly time: 10-15 minutes (70°F./50%RH) Minimum required spread: Approximately 6 mils or 250 square feet per gallon Required clamping pressure: Enough to bring joints tightly together (generally, 100-150 psi for softwoods, 125-175 psi for medium woods and 175-250 psi for hardwoods) Methods of application: Plastic bottles for fine applications; glue may also be spread with a roller spreader or brush. Cleanup: Damp cloth while glue is wet. Scrape off and sand dried excess.

-- -- Neil

View Jimi_C's profile

Jimi_C

507 posts in 1891 days


#2 posted 12-28-2009 10:54 PM

I typically wait for the glue to set up a bit, then scrape it off with either a cabinet scraper or a cheap chisel (if it’s a tight corner).

-- The difference between being defeated and admitting defeat is what makes all the difference in the world - Upton Sinclair, "The Jungle"

View grizzman's profile

grizzman

7011 posts in 1959 days


#3 posted 12-28-2009 11:03 PM

looks mighty good…...did you use biscuits or dowels…...the glue squeeze out doesn’t look to be in excess…so sanding wont be a big deal….and i’m going to take a guess here…...no dowel’s or biscuits huh…...

-- GRIZZMAN ...[''''']

View patron's profile

patron

13034 posts in 1997 days


#4 posted 12-28-2009 11:18 PM

put lower clamps on table ( maybe over plastic or paper )
lay out the boards in their finished places and flip every one the same way on edge ,
except the last one .
run a decent ( not excessive glue stripe down middle of top edges ) ,
flip all boards together bringing each joint home before it all runs down onto table ,
and clamp alternately .
wait ( as jimi said ) then scrape when it is like gum .
i’ve found that washing the glue first , can leave some starved spots as the glue shrinks some into the joint .

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1830 days


#5 posted 12-28-2009 11:19 PM

Thanks, Jimi and Grizz.

No. I didn’t do the biscuit or dowel route. Thought about it and … just didn’t. I know that can help alignment. Is that what you were thinking? The instructions didn’t call for it … even though the stuff I read about glue-ups, generally, say it’s a pretty good idea.

There was some slight warp in a couple of the boards, so … I made a choice—either plane past it before glue-up or sand through it, after. I went with the sanding after and figured that’d give me a touch more margin of error if the alignment wasn’t 100%.

I presume you just wait ‘til the glue sets up … before cleaning up the back (sitting on the black pipe), then, too, huh?

-- -- Neil

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1830 days


#6 posted 12-28-2009 11:22 PM

Thank you, David. I did most of that … luckily … but … what do you mean by “washing the glue first?”

Are you referring to removing the squeeze-out?

If so … that’s an excellent thought. I hadn’t considered that the final dry product may be some % smaller than the wet product…. Would be a good reason to wait.

-- -- Neil

View Jimi_C's profile

Jimi_C

507 posts in 1891 days


#7 posted 12-28-2009 11:31 PM

One other thing you might want to do, if you’re not using biscuits or dowels (which I don’t do), is to use some cawls across each end. I typically use some scraps that have been jointed flat (some books/sites recommend a slight curve to increase clamping pressure) with paraffin wax on them so the glue doesn’t stick. An alternative to the paraffin is to use wax paper – though I found that can still stick to the glue and is kind of a pain. I just tighten the pipe clamps just enough to hold the boards still, then put the cawls on each end with some C-clamps.

That should help stop your boards from warping while gluing up.

-- The difference between being defeated and admitting defeat is what makes all the difference in the world - Upton Sinclair, "The Jungle"

View patron's profile

patron

13034 posts in 1997 days


#8 posted 12-28-2009 11:31 PM

thats what i meant , about the squeeze- out .
if you make some boards on edge to bring the screw part of the clamp to middle of the work ,
it keeps the clamps from bowing the work ,
then use top clamps too ,
you can bow work up or down to straight that way ,
by tightening or loosening top or bottom clamps .
and holds the work off of the pipe .
otherwise put tape on pipe to keep from turning wood black

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1830 days


#9 posted 12-28-2009 11:41 PM

Thank you both, again.

Oddly, I was just looking at Tom Hintz's web page about cauls. Better late than never, I suppose … particularly since I get to build an identical second stand when this one’s done.

Tape and/or wax paper is a definite for the next one. Not surprisingly, I did get a couple of faint barbecue marks on the back side. Ah, well. I’ll be sanding it down.

I’ll use dowels on the next one. I have the jig. Seems like no downside.

Thanks again :-)

-- -- Neil

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1830 days


#10 posted 12-29-2009 05:13 AM

Glue’s set. Sanded from 80 grit down to 320 (didn’t skip steps). Should have used distilled water/odorless mineral spirits before the pics, but … to my K-Mart eyes .. it looks pretty good. It also feels perfect, in both directions.

Thanks again, all, for the feedback. I’ve browsed through so many books and articles to get ready for this particular project that … I let a few steps slip. I’ll get my binder in front of me, though, when mortising starts … and … for the glue-up on the next night stand.

and

-- -- Neil

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1830 days


#11 posted 12-29-2009 05:38 AM

Dave: fantastic idea. Many thanks. I’ve always had a couple of bars of that paraffin around, so … for night stand #2 … I’ll add that to the to-do list.

I can see that a touch of the glue did absorb, as you said. It’s barely noticeable, and not worth continued sanding, but … love your idea for the next go-around. No downside.

My wife doesn’t spend a great deal of time in the basement (since I’ve yet to build her yoga studio), and doesn’t spend a whole lot more time on LumberJocks.com.

Provided you and she don’t wind up in contact, then … I’m probably safe ;-)

Thanks … as always … for the wisdom. Looks like scrapers are a good idea. Been on my list for a while, now.

-- -- Neil

View lumberdustjohn's profile

lumberdustjohn

1256 posts in 1823 days


#12 posted 12-29-2009 02:55 PM

Looks like a good glue up.
I made the mistake before of wiping off the glue squeeze out with a wet towel.
I scrape now.
I also get the black stains from the bars. I try to be sure that this is the bottom side of the glue ups.
I use my table saw extension table to clamp and glue on. It makes a mess but the glue drips don’t stick very well to the formica top. Should try wax paper…........

-- Safety first because someone needs you.

View patron's profile

patron

13034 posts in 1997 days


#13 posted 12-29-2009 03:07 PM

niel ,
this looks as good as iv’e seen ,

if this is your first ,
then i will start asking you for help !

maybe i will send you some of my work ,
to do for me ?

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View Jimi_C's profile

Jimi_C

507 posts in 1891 days


#14 posted 12-29-2009 06:04 PM

DaveR: nice idea :) I use the paraffin on my cauls but didn’t think about using it on the non-glued spots around a joint to make clean up easier… I’ll definitely do that next glue-up as well :)

-- The difference between being defeated and admitting defeat is what makes all the difference in the world - Upton Sinclair, "The Jungle"

View stefang's profile

stefang

13050 posts in 1990 days


#15 posted 12-29-2009 09:44 PM

good work Neil. You are taking a systematical approach to this project and it is paying off. Keep up the good work.

One bad habit I have in glue-ups like that is to not remember to match grain direction so that all the boards grain is running in the same direction and eventual planing will be made easier. I could write a book on how not to do woodworking and if nobody bought it, I would know it was successful.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

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