A couple of months ago, I got a great deal on a Delta 50-760 dust collector (DC). It was used but barely, and I got it for $200. I have a relatively small shop; only 8’ X 18’. Originally I planned to place it outside a shop wall, in my garage, to save on space. However, I found I could fit it in what was a “dead” corner in the shop, sort of tucked out of the way. I decided to run ductwork and thanks to the fine work of fellow LJer, Patrick Jaromin, I had a guide on which way to go. I opted for the 6” green sewer pipe with four 4” drops. There has been much discussion about reducing the drops and to avoid repetition, I will refer you to Patrick’s blog for answers to those questions. For me the biggest challenge was what to do about the junction where the ductwork breaks off in two directions. Based on the corner I selected for the DC, it was in the middle of the ductwork. We know that 90 degree tee fittings are not acceptable for dust collection systems. I found what is called a “double tee” (aka sanitary clean out) fitting. It has two sweeping 90 degree turns. Ideally it would have been 6” on the sides and 4” on the bottom. Even 6×6x6 would have been nice and I could use a reducer at the bottom but I found it is only made in 4” size. I kept searching (googling, etc.) and ultimately found that 6” to 4” adaptors are sold so I decided to go with them. I resolved that my drops were going to be 4” and since I was incorporating a pre-separator (more on that shortly), that would be 4”; I would bite the bullet and allow the ductwork to reduce to 4” just before it headed down into the separator and finally the DC.
After reading several articles and posts about pre-separators (hereafter separators), I decided I wanted to include one. I remain skeptical as to how effective it will be. It seems to me if the DC is as efficient and effective as claimed, it is going to suck up everything that finds its way into the trash can, leaving nothing behind. I can’t see how even the largest and heaviest chips will be left behind, but time will tell I guess. Anyway, the challenge here was that this model DC has a 5” flange for a wye adaptor that comes with it. The wye allows one or two 4” flexible hose connections. With the separator, I would not be using this adaptor. Instead I had to find a 5” connection down to the trash can lid. I did a lot of searching again and eventually found that Delta makes a 5” to 4” reducer and I went with that. I cut a hole in the lid, tight to the 4” side. The flange between the two sides sits on top of the lid. I used silicone caulk inside and out to set the reducer and used a short length of 5” flexible hose with hose clamps to make the connection with the DC .
I wanted to use as little flexible hose as possible but the separator is designed to accept a flexible hose to its side. I decided to bring the 4” ductwork right down to the separator using long sweep 90 degree elbows. The problem then would be how do I remove the trash can from the ductwork to empty it? One night when I was very tired and frustrated, I solicited the brain power of a neighbor who came up with the idea to use a 4” Fernco sleeve. After removing the lid, I just loosen one clamp and slide the trash can over to pull it out and empty it.
Grounding the System
I decided to run a ground wire inside the ductwork. As I installed the pieces, I fed an 18 gauge bare copper wire through. It required me to use electrical connectors at each of the drops. The ground starts at the DC, attached to one of the bolts near the motor. It goes down along the outside of the trash can to a nut and bolt I attached to the side of the trash can after drilling a hole through it.
Attached to that same bolt but on the inside of the can is another piece of copper wire.
That piece runs through the plastic pipe up the wall to the double tee fitting where it marries up to the wire running through the 6” pipe and each 4” drop down to the blast gates. Each drop ends with a long 90 degree elbow fitting and a blast gate. I wasn’t sure how the grounding system was to terminate at the blast gate and then continue via the flexible hose to each machine. A co-worker and new LJer, “Lenzo” came up with a great suggestion. I drilled a small hole behind the blast gate, fed the copper wire through and attached an alligator clip to the wire. I will use a 10 foot length of flexible hose to go from machine to machine. I exposed a small amount of metal at the end of the hose by cutting away some plastic. I attach the clip to this exposed wire.
On the other end of the flexible hose, I find an appropriate spot near the dust port of each machine and attach an alligator clip (permanently) like I did at each blast gate.
There you have it. The system is grounded from machine to the DC.
This was a lot of work and it was challenging to complete. I was bogged down a few times waiting for parts I ordered online to arrive. If anyone decides to take on this project, I suggest you check out the prices on fittings at acehardwareoutlet.com. I found their prices to be far lower than a local plumbing supplier.
-- And on the eighth day God was back in His woodworking shop!
20 comments so far
Beginningwoodworker
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4229 posts in 571 days
posted 289 days ago
Looks nice.
-- CJIII Future cabinetmaker
Woodchuck1957
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posted 288 days ago
Looks good, but, I think you’d be better off running 6” from the Wye to the can. Just my opinion.
3fingerpat
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913 posts in 566 days
posted 288 days ago
Wow, that was a big undertaking, looks like you did a great job, thanks for posting, good info, appreciate you sharing it.
-- "You get what you inspect, not what you expect"
scarpenter002
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93 posts in 803 days
posted 288 days ago
Lots of work. Please let us know how the seperator works for you.
-- Scott in Texas
John Gray
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1755 posts in 784 days
posted 288 days ago
I have the same collector, a Delta 50-760, and a trash can just like yours. I found a 5”i.d sewer connection to use for the lid the problem is finding 5”i.d. flexible tubing that doesn’t come in 10’ rolls for $40 or so, all I need is a foot of hose. Did you find anyplace that sells short lengths of 5” hose?
I like your idea of using the side of the can to enter instead of doing it thru the top. Have you tried the can set up yet? Where did you get that idea? I’m getting ready to make the Paul Thien Collector, http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm ,have you seen it or have any comments on it? I’d like to talk to you about it at your convenience if you could PM me your phone # or I could send you mine
Thanks,
John Gray
-- Only the Shadow knows....................
Rxmpo
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119 posts in 644 days
posted 288 days ago
Lenny,
This was one heck of a project and you executed it perfectly! Excellent work and great blog. There is a ton of information in here for the rest of us to use. Thanks and congrats on the new system.
Mike
Lenny
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126 posts in 426 days
posted 288 days ago
Thanks for the comments guys; much appreciated.
Woodchuck, I value your opinion. Therefore, I want to throw a question back to you: Given my set up, with the DC in the middle of the ductwork, if you use 6” pipe all the way down to the trash can, what would your fitting be at the critical junction; the one where the ductwork goes in two directions and heads down to the trash can? If it is a 6×6x6 wye fitting it will not be a proper turn from one direction. It would be like a straight tee but with an even worse angle for the air to turn. How would you handle that junction? Thanks.
-- And on the eighth day God was back in His woodworking shop!
Woodchuck1957
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950 posts in 662 days
posted 288 days ago
Well first I’ll say thats a nice 4” Wye you found, but if you can’t get the same thing in a 6”, then another route would be to stack two 6” Wyes, point one one direction, and the next one the other direction. Then at the top of the top Wye put a cleanout plug in it. Or one Wye pointing one direction and out the top run a couple 45 degree elbows going the other way.
PurpLev
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2763 posts in 547 days
posted 288 days ago
I’d second Woodchuck – the whole idea of going 6” pipes is to keep airflow from being constraint. reducing it to 4” right before the machine creatres a bottle neck that:
1. constraints air flow (exactly why you want to go 6” all the way)
2. creates torbulance – all reduction rings will do that to some extent.
the good thing (so to speak) is that the reduction to 4” is on the vertical line, so you won’t have an accumulation of dust ‘hills’ at that spot, but in terms of air flow – you are killing it at that point, and since this is the main line, and just before the machine – it’s kind of a shame.
I’d opt to use 1 6”wye going vertical, and splitting to the right (or left), and on top of that put 2 45 degree bends to the opposite side . OR as woodchuck suggested stack 2 whys on top of one another and plug the higher wye with a cleanout plug.
Other than that – really nice job on the plumbing! where did you find those 6” pipes? I’m still in the search for those. and really great idea on the separation can before the DC – cool idea.
-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.
Bob #2
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posted 288 days ago
I would add to these constructive critics that with such a small DC you would have been better to have “zoned” the piping into two separate runs with blast gates.
Bob
-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner
Lenny
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126 posts in 426 days
posted 288 days ago
To Woodchuck and Purplev: [A light bulb appears above my head.] “Eureka, a vertical junction!” Talk about linear thinking (literally). This idea never dawned on me. I only considered a horizontal connection. It took me a few minutes to picture your suggestion but it makes perfect sense. Purplev, your idea even simplifies the junction by requiring only one wye. This is great. I will have to do this. Thanks. This is just one more example of how great this community is. Thousands of minds are better than one. Here are a couple of rough sketches in case anyone (like me) can’t picture the suggestions right away:
Woodchuck’s Idea
Purplev’s Idea
-- And on the eighth day God was back in His woodworking shop!
PurpLev
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2763 posts in 547 days
posted 288 days ago
Bob#2 idea is more than valid – placing a blast gate at the first split going in each direction (2 gates) would separate the entire setup into 2 zones that you can block individually to increase air flow to the other zone.
-- When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.
Lenny
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126 posts in 426 days
posted 288 days ago
Point #1: Woodchuck, sorry, I just realized that in addition to the two wyes suggestion YOU had also suggested the one wye and Purplev opined that he would go that way.
Point #2: Didn’t mean to shirk your suggestion Bob. It is appreciated. However, you have to remember that this is a small shop and the suction coming out of this 1 1/2 hp (alleged to be 1200 cfm) DC is plently right now, even at the furthest drop. When I eliminate the reduction to 4” and go to 6” all the way to the separator, it will be even greater. I agree Bob, that a blast gate zoning off the ductwork would be more efficient but I don’t think I need that greater efficiency given the size of my shop.
-- And on the eighth day God was back in His woodworking shop!
Bob #2
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3055 posts in 920 days
posted 288 days ago
Lenny, I have currently a 2 hp cyclone system. I have had both a 1 hp separator system and a 1-1/2 hp cyclone system.
My current system needs gating to get my the best dust collection.
Let’s talk agian in 6 months or so?
cheers
Bob
-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner
Todd A. Clippinger
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5654 posts in 998 days
posted 288 days ago
This is a great blog post. It is full of good information and plenty of pictures and drawings to convey that information.
It looks like you have a nice shop setup.
-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com
Woodchuck1957
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950 posts in 662 days
posted 287 days ago
Bob #2 has a point, and while your redoing it all, now would be the time to throw a couple in at the branch inlets. If your a one man shop like I’m guessing a darn good percentage are here, you only need one branch at a time. Plus if I remember right, your DC inlet is a 5”, so useing a 6” line is already pushing it.
Lenny
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126 posts in 426 days
posted 287 days ago
Thanks Todd. This has turned into quite a long blog discussion and it’s about to get longer. Bob, you have a deal. I will get back to you at some point and I have a sneaky suspicion I will be telling you I understand what you meant. Right now going from a shop vac to this DC seems like lightyears of advancement to me. After some time I may see it differently and want that additional efficiency.
I want to go back to John Gray’s comments and questions. John, I now know a place you can get one foot lengths of the 5” flexible hose…FROM ME! I have 9 feet of 5” hose I can’t use and will gladly sell it in one foot lengths. Seriously though, I too didn’t find any alternative to buying a 10’ length of it. I got mine from Amazon.com for about $21. As for the idea to put the hole in the side of the can, I saw it in a review of the DC on Amazon. Here’s a link to it. Separator. I attempted to test the separator by hooking up the DC to my jointer and setting it at 1/8”. I ran a board through a few times and watched the chips fly through the hose but they all ended up in the plastic bag with none in the can. I didn’t post a pic of the underside of the lid. Another article I read Lid” on the trash can, with both ports on top of the can, indicated that there should be a pipe extended about 10” into the can. I did that on mine too and I think that maybe it is so low that it is sucking up the “heavier” chips that are supposed to stay in the can. I am thinking of trying it without this pipe.
Anyone with a separator have any comments?
-- And on the eighth day God was back in His woodworking shop!
Woodchuck1957
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950 posts in 662 days
posted 287 days ago
I don’t know if this would help, and I didn’t want to criticize alot, but since you ask, I looked the can over and noticed that the side inlet is centered from side to side in the side of the can, cyclones the inlet is mitered into the edge. To get the same effect in your case you could put a 90 degree elbow inside the can at a horizontal position against the wall of the can, unless your up to trying the miter thing, then you could ditch the elbow, one less elbow in a system is allways a good thing. The top pipe going into the lid should go straight down maybe 12”.
Lenny
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126 posts in 426 days
posted 287 days ago
Woodchuck, take a look at the picture above that shows the ground wire inside the can. You can see that I did use piping to bend the incoming material towards the inside of the can as recommended. I have some flexibility in how high or low that pipe is within the can and that may play into how well the cyclone effect works. Since I expected the pipe coming from the lid to hit this piping, I put a 22 degree elbow under the lid (about 2” long) and added an 8” length of 4” pipe for an overall depth of about 10”. Yet, I did not have any chips in the can after running the jointer as mentioned. Maybe it needs bigger and heavier chips, such as might come from my surface planer?
-- And on the eighth day God was back in His woodworking shop!
Woodchuck1957
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950 posts in 662 days
posted 287 days ago
Lenny, I noticed the elbow you have in the can, It looks like it’s at a funny angle and pointed somewhat downward, try pointing it horizontal. And come to think of it, a 45 degree elbow would probably work better inside the can, and try to bring it closer to the inside of the can side by pulling that coupler out of the can some.