Advice on Patents #1: Okay, it's not woodworking, but it's for woodworker's too.

Lee,

A great effort in putting up that page. Family members have engaged in the patent process several times and it is always a filed that must be navigated carefully.

Alan

I always look at everyone through suspicious eyes. I’ve had some decent ideas in the past that I would have loved to produce, but had no idea how, or who to go to. I was always afraid of getting caught in that trap described above, spending thousands for nothing. Maybe this will help sift things out. Great site, thanks for the link…!

-- As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17) †

That’s a great idea Lee.
The pitfalls of patenting a product in many ways, outweigh the gains achieved.
It seems today that the legal system profits to a much larger extent than the individual patent holder.
That may not be true for large corporations but the legal battles for intellectual property in the software industry are the things legends are made of.

Then there is the China phenomenon where your product could be made and sold in many parts of the world without your even knowing.

To date, the world seem intimidated by this glowering autocracy. That has to change.

I look forward to seeing your experiences in print and learning some of the intracises of the process.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Lee, I like what you are doing. I own one patent, a friend lawyer helped me with it. The one thing I learned from it is that you need find the patent lawyer that understands the trade where it applies to too.

-- http://www.twinoaksgrowers.com

Hi Alan;

Thank you!

I am amazed at what I’ve been told regarding professional advice!

Some of it can only be classified as outrageous!

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Thanks for the info, Lee. I know I’ve come up with ideas and after searches on the patent sites, have found out there is something similar, even if it is very crude. The data base for patents is enormous. Want to be inventors need to spend a little time each day or week, just perusing the site to see what’s there, before they even think about wasting money on an attorney. I’m sure I’ll spend some time looking over your sight.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

Hi Steve;

Thanks for the kind words. I had a suspicion a lot of us “Jocks” have some ideas, and felt it would be good to provide some of the information I learned along the way.

I hope this effort will help save many people from walking into that trap.

I did spend hundreds of hours studying the process, so I figured why not pass it along.

Plus it gives me practice on making websites. (actually the site has already started showing up on Google for a few search terms).

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hi Bob;

Hello my friend!

You bring up a great point about China. One of the contacts I made was a fellow from Hong Kong, who invents, manufactures and imports products.

He showed me a product he has a patent on, manufactures and sells. Someone from a company in China copied his idea, and is promoting it here in the US. They actually sent him a sample, in an effort to sell them. DUH!

Rather blatant I’d say.

Thank you;

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

My Father-in-law had quite a few patents on a variety of items, & he would do everything himself, even

the patent drawing.

The first thing is the patent search, & it’s amazing that you’ll find many that are just like yours.

You can have all the patents in the world, but the main thing is trying to market it.

Without good marketing, a patent is useless.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

Hi PaBull;

You bring up a great point regarding having someone versed in the area of your invention. This is critical in having the claims written properly, or it’s a good bet your patent will not be granted.

What is it you have a patent on?

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Lee, thanks for sharing your experience.

One thing I’ve learned about attorneys…

As long as you have money to spend, they have sunshine to sell….

Q

-- I don't make sawdust...I produce vast quantities of "Micro Mulch."

Hi Tim;

Thank you for adding to the subject. You couldn’t be more right about spending time investigating the data, well in advance of seeking a patent, or especially an attorney.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hi Dick;

I am having thoughts that this is the way to go for some people, meaning do it yourself. Of course that’s not for everyone, but if you can, why not!

Did he have success in his marketing efforts?

Say hello to Barb for me.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

He invented the first spring Rocking horse, & had a company all set for production, & World War II

came along, & the factory switched to wartime products, Bad Luck!

He had many other toys, & games that weren’t successful.

Like I said in my first comment, Marketing.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

Hi Quixote;

I had the pleasure of dealing with one particular attorney who seemed obtuse.

I went to a deposition, and all the other attorneys had huge piles of paperwork, and mine had a small folder with only a few pages.

Needless to say I was somewhat concerned. I leaned over to him and whispered to him, “look at all the paperwork these attorneys have. How come we don’t have that?” His response was if you want to pay for copies of all those pages, no problem, but we don’t need ‘em.

Here’s where it boils down to a guess, is my guy nuts, or smart.

Turns out he was smart. Quite smart. He saved me a fortune.

In another case he made me a fair amount of money from a client who had broken a large verbal contract. When the case was settled, I asked him what I owe him. He said all I did was file paperwork, which you already paid for. We’re even. The paperwork charge was $300.00

And I also have a good number of friends that are attorneys, and I really can’t imagine them being anything but straight guys that you can really count on.

But the ones of which you speak, Yuk! (choice of words limited due to this being a family site).

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hi Dick;

Thanks for the reply.

Think maybe I should take that as a hint?

My new 1 year advertising campaign begins soon in Wood magazine! The end of August.

I may not know how to make any money, but I sure am good at spending it!

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Lee!

You can’t be a success if you don’t try.

Lotsa Luck!

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

Hi Dick;

You don’t mind if I pass this on to my wife, do you?

She doesn’t believe me!

Thank you,

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

OK, but keep me out of it.<;O)

I hope you’re keeping food on the table.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

That’s funny!

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Thanks for the info,

-- jeanmarc manosque france

Lee!

I have to thank you for starting this thread, because I just made a patent search on Google,

& found my Father-in-law's patent. I had never seen it before,

& Barb hasn’t seen this yet, so she’ll be surprised.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

thanks for the great post Lee ~

-- life can always be weaved into a song.

Hi jeanmarc;

My pleasure, my friend.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hey Dick;

That’s pretty cool!

I’ll bet Barb will be shocked and proud to see her father’s work after so many years.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hi Jude;

As the reigning king of cheezy jokes, Thank you.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hi Lee,

She loved it, & she wants to thank you for starting this thread, & gave me the idea to run the search.

I tried the patent office first with no luck.

When I tried Google’s Patent search, it popped right up.

Did you notice the time line on the patent? It was applied for in 1938, & granted in 1940.

I wonder if it takes that long now?

I recommend to anyone who has an idea, or invention, try the Google search first,

& you might save a lot of time, if someone else has already invented it.

Barb would like to give you a ”Big hug”, Lee.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

Lee great site.

May you be blessed for your efforts.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Dick;

It’s official! Your comments alone have made the time spent creating this site worth while.

I shall considered myself hugged!

And yes, I did notice the time line, and yes it still takes that long. I’m still working on mine.

Again a very big thank you!

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hello my friend Karson;

As always, thank you.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Lee – thanks for the thread. You are right about attorneys. Some are good some not, just like any profession. The law profession got the bad rap from the bad apples who made their name/money off the backs of those who did not realize they were being abused. Sad really. But the great majority of attorneys are intent on providing a good service at a good price. I work with attorneys everyday and there are few instances of the “bad apple.”

Good luck on your new site. I’m sure it will help a lot of folks.

-- You can't get a hug from Facebook.

Hi Betsy;

Thank you for you input concerning attorneys. I had actually considered becoming an attorney, until I learned I would need graduate high school, and as if that’s not bad enough, go for more schooling after that! Who knew?

Seriously, I have both a family member and a number of dear friends that are attorneys, and I can’t imagine them being in the bad apple barrel.

Also, I hope you are correct in the site helping people avoid the bad apples.

That was the objective!

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hi Lee. Good to see you putting up information like this.

My own experience with patents is that it can sometimes take up to 5 years from submission to grant. Also, even when you have a patent attorney who is versed in your field, there is still a lot of work that you have to do to double check his/her work and to provide additional explanations and details where it may be lacking. Don’t underestimate the amount of work that it entails – and remember with attorney’s rates, you WANT to be doing most of the technical work if you can. It takes a lot to prove that it is unique but only 1similar reference somewhere to prove that it is not. This is where patent lawyers come in. They will work to make as many claims (a claim being a unique condition of your patent) as possible to ensure that your invention is not the same as someone elses. It’s not unusual to have 100’s of claims on a single patent. Sometimes a single obscure claim could be the clincher.

Finally, having said all of this, it really pays to check around and make sure your invention is unique ( a patent lawyer will do this for you but again, consider the fees they will charge for patent searches which you can now do online). If your patent is woodworking related, keep in mind that it is a craft which has been around for hundred of years (probably thousands) and there is probably more that we have forgotten than we have written down.

Btw, your website states that you cannot patent an idea or a description. That’s not exactly true. All of my patents (4) are software processes, not all of which were actually built, but which were described in such detail as it could be built ( or implemented in code as it were). All were granted. None have any real value except bragging rights.

-- Steve, New Zealand, www.steveracz.com

Hi Steve;

Thank you for your input on the post.

As you are probably aware the site isn’t complete yet, and in my folder is a half written page, going over these very points you mention regarding finding an attorney practiced in the field which your invention pertains.

It also goes into some detail… Actually I’ll just post what I have so far!

Here it is: keep in my this is unedited at this point.

Have you ever wondered why patents are so difficult to read, and even harder to understand? Or that it is actually against the law for a patent to be “unreadable”. Why would such a law even be needed?

Patent attorney’s in addition to needing a law degree, are also required to have at least a Bachelor’s Degree in a technical field.

Keeping in mind the amount of time, education and study required to earn both of these degrees, it should be apparent why they’re so difficult to understand. It’s almost as though a part of the brain burns out, and no longer functions in the everyday language us “normal individuals” use.

Actually, the reason is more due to a more writing technique than the theory above. Writing ability is not one of the requirements, and therefore is often ignored. Neither of the two required fields of study have much to do with writing. Add to that, the text books for both are not exactly “good reads”. It stands to reason, after six years of reading and studying these text books, writing in the normal sense is long forgotten.

Personally, about half way through a patent application, I’m completely lost. What’s worse is the fact it is generally my own invention I’m reading about! I have to read and re-read the same paragraph, v e r y s l o w l y, trying to catch every word. I have learned putting on a sport jacket with leather patches on the elbows, and smoking a pipe helps. While I don’t understand any better, I at least look like I do.

The objections from the Patent Office, regarding my own patent applications, all stemmed from the Patent Examiner not being able to follow the claims. ( Even with the pictures!). I am relatively certain I read that patent examiners are required to be skilled in the areas of the patents they review. That would seem logical.

For my own invention, I wrote the initial claims in plain English, which were then translated to legalese by my attorney. When I read the final application, I was no longer sure what I invented!

There is purpose to this mystery writing and in the attorneys defense, it’s is effective. The more abstract the writing is, the greater the patent protection, in so far as the chance of covering every contingent that a future attorney, representing their own client may try to disclaim. However, the law does state the description must be clear, concise, and exact.

In further defense of the patent attorney, and from my own experience, a person / client, may decide to modify the wording, or alter in some way the application or response on the very day it is to be submitted.
This doesn’t exactly leave the attorney in the position to rewrite his own work, as well as keep up with the planned events for his day. In other words, it becomes a rush job. With not much time available to contemplate the changes pursuant to the rest of the documents / application, this can really throw a monkey wrench in the gears.

From my own business experience I can attest to the havoc this can reek, not to mention the mental stress it creates. It almost always results in a non productive day.

end of draft.

Quote from the USPTO website: “A patent cannot be obtained upon a mere idea or suggestion. The patent is granted upon the new machine, manufacture, etc., as has been said, and not upon the idea or suggestion of the new machine. A complete description of the actual machine or other subject matter for which a patent is sought is required”.

I misunderstood the meaning of the above sentence and will correct that on my site.

Steve, thank you again for taking the time to read and respond to my site. I do appreciate it very much.

Lee
p.s. How’s New Zealand, besides gorgeous?

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Lee,

I’ve had to go to court for a few things, & I’ve learned biggest attribute of being a lawyer,

is being able to use words that ordinary laymen don’t understand.

That must be the first thing they learn in there training.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

Hi Dick;

I think that’s the second year.

I believe the first year is spent learning how to fend off all the lawyer jokes.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Lee, I am a nurseryman, a grower of house plants. http://www.twinoaksgrowers.com/ We use sleeves to pack our plants. The sleeve is a tapered sheet of paper glued in a cone shape to hold the plant pot and all. A lot of times the brokers, who pick up the plants want us to sticker the plant with care instructions or a UPC or both before they go out to the store. We had to rip the sleeve to get enough space for the sticker on the pot. This was extra time and it looked crappy. So by a little cut on both sides of the paper on the bottom of the sleeve, it created a spot where the sticker could go. The cost for the manufacturer to do this was very minimal, like less than a penny, but the savings in labor was 4-5 cents. The problem was that the growers were not willing to spend the penny for the broker to save the nickel.

So I did get the patent, but made not a dime on it.

-- http://www.twinoaksgrowers.com

Hi PaBull;

I don’t understand the reluctance. If you spend less than a penny to save five cents, how is this not a good thing?

Although, when I read that back it sounded like what my wife says when she buys something on sale! lol

Seriously, I would think that it would be a great product. Is there no way to get both parties to benefit from it?

Go figure.

Bravo on the patent though, and hopefully one day it will make you money.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

The first year we LEARN the lawyer jokes so we can finish them first and really piss off the teller.

Lee

-- No piece is cut too short. It was meant for a smaller project.

My question today is how enforceable are patents in a Global economy?

I can understand the validity in the developed nations with reciprocity but how does that play out in nations that simply do not play on the same playing field.

A similar situation played out here in North America where the U.S. lobbyist’s managed to have the US Government ignore several consecutive International rulings on softwood lumber tariffs laid down and agreed to by both parties in the NAFTA agreement.

Unless we stick by our international agreements it’s difficult to expect anyone else to.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Hi Lee;

I should have been more clear in my response. That is what I was referring to.

Great signature line!

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hi Bob;

Good question. My guess would be not very.

Even if you were to find out about violations, how many could you effectively pursue?

Regarding the U.S Government, hell they lie to us all the time, what else could be expected?

Playing in any game where you are the only one following the rules is a spot I come across in business all the time. As I’m sure you have as well with your business.

The irritating part to me is I keep right on playing by those same rules. Doh!

Either you cheat or you don’t. I don’t.

Speaking of cheating, did the heater guys ever show up for your shop?

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Dick,
If I were you, I’d print those drawings out and get them framed or something. Artwork and some family history in one. I wish I had somethign like that in my family. I might, but I’d need to start digging.

Hi HokieMojo;

That’s a great idea.

Dick, that would make a great present for Barb!

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

HI Lee:
In my several years in the import export business I found that getting the product to market was almost as critical as having it patent protected.
If you have a finite source of funds you pretty much have to put that money where it does the most good.
Years ago I began manufacturing a product in Pakistan and distributing it in Canada and the U.S.
Patent attorneys sent me threatening letters actually distorting their clients patent to try to capture me in and infringement. Ultimately, they accused me of using their client”s “trade name” in my advertising.
I researched that accusation and found that the name was generic in nature and had been registered by another major corporation prior to the current complainant. (so much for lawyers and their high priced searches)
I never went for a separate patent to protect my interests and I made a lot of money from the product which I’m still selling today.
I think, had I spent time and money on a patent attorney my chances of getting the product to market could have been seriously hampered. (Lawyers are just too damn slow to be effective for most business transactions)
That being said, if you have a product that could have a long half life and large potiential for marketing then by all means patent it and protect it. It sort of varies with the windows of opportunity that present in life and the funds availble at the time.

p.s. The gas fitter finished yesterday and I am golden! I can start moving the equipment now!
I bought 14 upper kitchen cabinets from an installer yesterday for $10.00 each ( new in the boxes) so that will speed up getting my stuff put away and the benches made.

Cheers

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Hi Bob;

Glad to hear those guys finally showed up.

Not the fun begins! I think one of my favorite projects is the shop itself.

Regarding the patent thing, it’s as though you can be damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.

At the end of the day though, it sounds as though your technique worked just fine.

Have fun with setting up the shop.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the long reply to my comments! I think your next chapter is a good one regarding language and understanding the world in which patents exist.

I can’t vouch for the origins of the language used by lawyers but I do think that it’s a two way street. If we expect our patent lawyers to be versed in our language and our discipline, then we should also be versed in theirs. We should understand what we are buying when we try to patent something and where our input is required and where a patent lawyer’s input is required.

There are terms like ‘claims’, ‘prior art’, ‘preferred embodiment’ that should be generally understood by anyone willing to engage in the process.

I keep coming back to this idea and Bob#2 mentions it too above, sometimes it may not even be worth the effort to patent. I think you need to question hard why you want to patent something. My patents were paid for by a large corporation. Their motive was not patent protection per se ( unless it becomes a clear violation and threatens an obvious revenue source in which case the lawyers will go after them) but rather it was for marketing reasons and for justification to the shareholders of R&D expenditures. If you spend 14% of your revenues on R&D and you pride your company on the number of degree’d engineers it carries on the payroll, you better be able to justify the expenditure and have something to show for it.

You also don’t need to have a patent in order to be an inventor. It’s not like it used to be. As someone else mentioned earlier too, with globalization, the value of patents may be questionable. Unless you apply for patent protection around the world, you may only be legally protected in a single country. That’s probably a whole other topic – and I am definitely not a lawyer and so I don’t have much to say about that except that other countries may not automatically recognize your country’s patents and vice-versa.

Wrt the comments on patenting ideas and descriptions, I agree that the full description from the USPTO would include the conditions under which my patents were granted. It’s a subtle difference but an important one. You don’t necessarily have to have a working device but you do have to have sufficient information and description that such a device ( or process ) could be feasibly produced and you can convince the reviewers that it can be.

Finally, New Zealand is quite gorgeous in its own way. We have the pleasure of beaches, mountains, volcanoes, glaciers, forests all within a relatively short distance from each other but then we also consume resources and emit greenhouse gases almost on a per capita par to that of the US. That’s shameful for a country of 4 million people – actually it’s mainly the 40 million sheep and 2.5 million dairy cows kept by that small population which contributes the most. The country though is committed to the Kyoto protocol, increasing renewable energy to 90% by 2025 ( currently about 70% due to large amounts of hydro, thermal and wind generation) and keeping nuclear energy and GM foods out forever and that bodes well for forests and woodworkers!

-- Steve, New Zealand, www.steveracz.com

Hi Steve;

Again, great post.

Learning the terms needed to correspond with your patent only makes good sense. Anyone not taking advantage of the information available on the internet, is derelict in their commitment. It obviously is in their best interest to become versed on the terms the attorney is using when corresponding with them.

This is a factor in my decision to create this site. That plus the previous reasons mentioned.

While it’s true, you don’t need a patent to be an inventor, if you intend to try to profit from your invention, a patent can help, but only to a degree. Defending patent infringement is quite expensive, so if it were a large corporation infringing on my patent, for example, the advantage would be with them as they have deep pockets, whereas someone sewed my pockets shut. It is much easier to allow the infringement to take place, then go after them. They can actually be an advantage. Letting them market your product, establish brand recognition etc, requires a considerable investment on their part. Once this name brand recognition is established, they don’t simply erase it. At this time it behooves them to come to an agreement with the inventor.

Regarding other countries, a patent must be applied for in each country for which you desire patent protection. There are a number of countries that participate in a group effort. I believe it is the countries participating in the Geneva Convention, if memory serves. These countries each have fees required to be paid.

Each individual country has an application fee. In my research, for a U.S patent holder to get a patent in Canada, it’s $ 1,200.00 . In Japan, it was $ 6,500.00 . As this has been a couple years since I did this research, these prices may have changed. They have changed in the U S since then. These fees do not guarantee a patent will be issued, and the fee is non refundable, if the application is rejected, so it is a risky business. Regarding China, a patent is useless as enforcement is a joke.

Again, Steve thank you for adding to this post. The amount of responses on this topic has surprised me.

Maybe you should post some pictures of your area as done by a few other jocks, sharing the beauty of New Zealand.

Personally, I’m trying to get a good photo of sand to add for my area.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Hi Lee,

You see, you have the answers! That’s why you’re creating the website and not me.Very interesting information. Thanks for filling in the blanks.

Yes, there is a lot of interest in this topic. Maybe it’s cause we’re such a creative bunch and we all have 100 ideas we’d like to patent!

I just looked at Martin’s tour of his town and it might be a new trend here on LJ that I’ll definitely get into it.

Thanks for the cool info Lee.

-- Steve, New Zealand, www.steveracz.com

Thank you Steve;

Without your posts, a lot of this information would have been missed. I guess thats why these forums work so well.

I is I who should thank you!

Lee

I am looking forward to the scenic hotos.

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Lee,
I think your site and forum has and will benefit many people who have little understanding of the patent process. GREAT job! I added a tasteful tidbit to my blog for consideration. It was a little to long to post here, but thanks for your starting this topic.

I was reading a forum thread on one of my favorite sites that discussed patents. I normally feel entrepreneurs should spend more time developing their business and marketing plans and less time worrying about how to get a patent. This is especially true for the “small” startup company with limited time . . . Read More >>

-- Bill - - Ad-Marketing Guy, Ramsey NJ

Hi Bill;

Thank you for adding to this blog. I did read the article on your site. It is unfortunate that the government is always willing to s**t on the little guy.

Will they never realize the combined numbers of the little guys are giants, and will the little guys never reakize that either?

Hopefully, these proposed changes will either be modified with the individual inventor in mind, or over ruled all together.

Regarding your first points of foregoing the patent process all together, and concentrating on the business of business.

I feel this may often be the right thing to do, however in certain cases, it would be suicidal for the inventor.
In my own position, doing so would open me up to a large company basically just taking over the market by making use of there size regarding working capital. Such a business could afford to lose money on a product, for a while, in an effort to force out the competition. Not to mention the ability to produce it in greater numbers, and at a lower cost. Then using the marketing program, already in place for their other products, it would not be much of a contest.

Again, Bill, thank you for adding to this blog, and hopefully there will be information provided by the various posters, to help in many instances.

Lee

So with these things in mind, I believe it is often better to educate one’s self in the patent process and do as much or all of the patent filing on their own. Or at the very least, as much as possible.

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Lee

No, I believe a patent is NEVER too difficult to obtain nor should be neglected. But, it is a costly process. One must first determine the intent of securing the patent: Examples:

- “Will I Start a Business with this patent”?
alternative,
- “Will I develop a product with patent, and seek royalties”?
alternative,
-” Will I need capital to develop both product and patent before I start a business”?
alternative
-”Will I create NDA and NCA (Non-Compete Agreements) and seek out marketing, manufacturing, financial or idea partners?”

The questions are numerous, but it is important to FIRST decide what is your goal, before you go the FULL patent route. Depending on complexity of product / design / engineering, etc, the process can become very, very, very costly. Many a person has been either discouraged or simply ran out of cash trying to get a patent only to find the “potential market” simply passed him by- that is why a business plan should be FIRST developed to determine the intent of product and funding for the business or patent process.

I know one person, who after obtaining his patent ($24,000), 12 months later spent 4 times that amount in defending his patent from the “ripoffs”.

There are numerous ways to protect “intellectual” property. But remember nothing is more important than sound business and legal advice.

My overall point – get to market as fast as possible with a solid and sound business / marketing plan to build the business as fast as you can. If it is the greatest idea around, patent it only if you can afford to do so, otherwise take your changes.

Many times a “big” business will seek to simply buy your busiess in lieu of their going through the patent process, in this matter they not only secure the product they eliminate competition, and may in turn capture a very intelliegent collaborator for future products. But doing this they can weigh the patent process from a totally different perspective. Your startup business became their focus group. It happens all the time and can be a nice lucrative package for the inventor.

-- Bill - - Ad-Marketing Guy, Ramsey NJ

Hi Lee,

This is something I posted on my blog awhile back.

This is a snowmobile trail groomer, I designed & built where I worked.

A lot of people told me I should get a patent on it, but I didn’t think I’d be able to market it.

Besides someone could make a slight change to it, with no problem if they wanted to.

I wasn’t to anxious to try a new venture a the time.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1