My Sharpening Station Copyright 2-11-2007 Karson Morrison

Buffing with MDF…Thanks Karson

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

Karson – Thank you for this very interesting and detailed blog. This will be a great reference.

-- http://foldingrule.blogspot.com

What a fantastic (and timely) post. Thanks for the info.

I’ve been struggling with a felt and cotton wheel I mounted to an old craftsman motor (powered my grandfathers old – and frightening – table saw).

I can get a descent edge, but the wheels always wobble if I put too much pressure. I do need more lessons, or practice at the very least. I like how you can use the side for flattening the back. Perhaps I can give this a shot, and give up on the jig I’m making for using with sandpaper, and never need the $100 jig Woodcraft just added to their catalog.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

For those of you who have lathes. If you could turn a holding mount that you could put on and take off and runs true, you could mount the MDF to that mount and use your lathe as the power source.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Brilliant!

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Wow Karson, If your machine gets things sharper than a Tormex, that is amazing. I would be afraid to use anything that sharp.

Bill

-- Make Dust

Nah, sharper tools are “safer”

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Thanks for the info Karson. I’ve never sharpened any of my carving chisel with power. It may be time to try some power. I’ve looked at systems such as you have, & they’re a heck of a lot cheaper than manufactured stuff.
I would also like to apologize to everybody for the Fine woodworking links I’ve been posting. I didn’t realize that you had to be a member of their on-line magazine to see them.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

It is shure a lot cheaper to build and to maintain. $0.25 for MDF and whatever polishing compound you use. Grizzly has a polishing compound for Polyester finishes. The are used for Guitar finishing. It’s cost $28.00 And another at $27.00 for Stainless steel, brass and Copper. But the ones that I use were $3.00 and $5.00 each for 1lb bars. I’ve also got one from Sears that’s 20 years old for a cost of 3.95 for 4 bars.

An additional way of getting the MDF disks is to use a bandsaw or skill saw to cut to a rough circle and then true it up with sandpaper.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Dick:

One of the links that I looked at, the JoolTool. referenced in your carving Chisel blog talked about leaving a bur on the inside of the lathe chisels. Is that standard practice and on hand carving are all of the burs removed. I think it would be quite easy to form an MDF wheel to fit both the inside and outside on the same wheel. It might require a double wheel (2 layers of MDF) but being able to sharpen both inside and outside without having to change wheels could be an advantage. Once they are sharp you would probably only need the fine green buffing compound.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Karson:
You do get a burr on the inside. On my shallower gouges I strop them on the rounded backside of my strop. I usually fold or roll a piece of fine emory for the smaller, & pull the chisel through. I’ve seen a system where you make inverted grooves on a board to match each gouge, then use stropping compound, but I think an MDF wheel would work better. You could make multiple inverted grooves on one wheel. I guess I’ll make me a wheel. I already have an arbor I can use on my lathe.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

So, Karson. I’m curious as to why you’d continue to buy sharpening systems after you buy the first one. I do my sharpening by hand and I know that one day I’ll move on to power, but then I’m sure I wouldnt buy three or four. In fact I like the Karson Sharpening System. I’m not one that prefers bells and whistles. I like functionality. ANd once I saw Don’s sliding table saw sled, I made one, and when it started to take a little effort to get it thorugh, I just waxed it and now it slides beautifully. Oh, and instead of car wax, I used Johnson Paste Wax.

-- http://ye-olde-cabinet-shoppe.com/

Hey Obi,
Karson has an excuse, don’t you know? Karson’s a toolman. LOL

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

at the woodshow the Tormek representative asked Rick how he sharpens his tools and he said “I don’t” .... we aren’t at that point yet.. still looking into the lathes. We then stood through a 20 minute demonstration. The gentleman wasn’t the best of presenters and I lost interest in the whole thing and was wondering if this Tormek thing was worth the investment. Never thought about coming here and asking the “experts”.. Silly me…
Karson, you use the Tormek and then the Karson system??

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I use the Tormek to get the initial angle on the chisel. Like 25 degrees. But I’ve never gotten a sufficiently sharp tool. It looks easy but it does take a long time. I’ve spent 20-30 minutes on one chisel.

Obi: nothing ever seemed fast enough nor sharp enough. The Scarey Sharp system and the cast Iron Scary sharp sustem that I made worked but again slow. Then stropping it on the 3M Diamond and 3M polishing films did give a great edge. But you can’t push the edge into the sharpening film because you cut right through the plastic backing. You have the draw in into the sharpening edge. Slow but sharp.

I was still looking for speed, and easy. This is the easiest that I’ve found and the power doesn’t make the tool hot except for heavy cutting on the coarse grit. I’ve seen some sparks on the black cutting action. Nowhere have I seen the grit combination for the polishing rouges.

I was thinking about trying a 400 or 600 grit PSA sanding disk for first cutting on some really dull and misaligned chisles. But, I’ve not tried it yet. A few more disks to cut.

I might also fill in the bolt hole with Bondo to make it smooth to get a better contact with the PSA paper. You (or me) could also make an alignment jig to allow you to hold the chisel in the correct place for initial sharpening. Then you could use the polishing for the micro-bevel. and final polishing.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

I’ve just remembered an article in a UK woodworking (or turning) magazine perhaps last spring? The guy made a bunch of mdf disks and wound a piece of sandpaper around it, attached it to a motor, and has a nice wide “stone.” Seems to me that Karson’s set up is better, whether on a motor or lathe. However, it might be a good option to put 2-4 of the disks together for carving tools.

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso -- http://blanchardcreative.etsy.com -- http://snbcreative.wordpress.com/

Guys and Gals: I’ve only had this setup working for about 1 week and I’ve only used it with flat metal Chisels and plane irons. I’ll let some of you turners see how it will work for turning tools and hand carving.

Here is a web site that talks about different polishing compounds. He doesn’t talk about green compounds but other sites refer to green as Cromiun Oxide and it is used instead of red rouge which is mainly for gold and silver articles. His price for polishing compounds is about twice as expensive as Grizzly. However he does have a combo kit at $7.00 for 4 and $11.00 for 6 bars. The six bars include black, brown, blue? and green . Ace hardware shows selling it on their web site.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Karson,
I am looking at the item you linked to at Beall and would like your clarification that it is the Mandrell Extension instead of the Combination 1/2 to 5/8 adapter shown on this page:
http://www.bealltool.com/products/buffing/buffer.php

The reason I ask is that the pictures you show have setscrew in the adapter and the extension has a male threaded end on it.

Thanks for posting this information and all the pictures. It looks like something I will be trying in the very near future.

John

Foneman

Yes it is the adapter that costs 15.00. It has a bushing that will fit on a 1/2 or 5/8 motor shaft. But the bushing caused the adapter to wobble. So I got a brass bushing and used sandpaper on the spinning shaft to get a good fit within the aluminum mandrel.

The other end of the mandrel has a 3/5 X 16 threads that I used the bolt from the MDF wheel to screw into. The end of the mandrel has a recess that allows the nut from the bolt to go bellow the surface.

It is the piece sitting in the middle of the picture standing on end.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Thanks Karson, I will get the adapter and a brass bushing and give it a try. I already have several types of buffing rouge and can see where this might be the fastest method yet for sharpening and touchup work.

John

you didn’t copyright this quit fibbin.

-- http://ye-olde-cabinet-shoppe.com/

I’ve been using the same basic set up for sharpening as Karson, although with a couple modifications.

I still own a Shopsmith Mark5, which is rarely used for anything other than a horizontal boring machine on occasion, and a lathe some what often.

I took a turning course a number of years back, (20) and still remember some of it. The instructor taught us his method of maintaining a sharp edge on turning tools, that was very quick, and extremely effective.

We mounted an 1 1/2” thick poplar blocks to a face plate, which became dedicated to the poplar block. (Done to prevent warping and spliting). The block was turned round, and then has various coves and beads turned on the edges. After the turning was completed, we “treated” the block with jewelers rouge. To sharpen a turning tool takes only about 15 seconds.

First the back is flattened or polished, depending upon the shape of the tool. The cutting edge is held down, so it has no chance of digging into the poplar. The back edge of a gouge is polished on the flat face of the block, until a mirror finish is achieved. It inside of the gouge is lightly held against a corresponding sized bead, to clean up the burr. I do have several of these blocks, in varying shapes and sizes.

I do my set of carving tools in the same manner. I have found this to be the quickest way of maintaining the edge. Do somewhat often, it’s a matter of touching up and edge, as opposed to a complete overhaul.

I do use the same flat area of the block to do the back side of my wood chisels.

From there I go to M.D.F. Blocks, treated with diamond paste, down to 25,000 grit. This is done in sequential grits, on both the front edge and the back.

The ease in which I am able to pare end grain is amazing.

The other sharpening systems I have rarely get any use, insluding the tormek system, or the makita system, or the delta systems I own.

They just seem to slow the process down.

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

Thanks Lee for the clarification. I remember now you saying that you used a popular block. Where I went with MDF. I wasn’t aware that you used diamond paste on mdf. I’ve used the diamond paste on cast iron and also on Maple blocks.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Karson:

That’s a really interesting approach you’ve developed.

Yesterday while playing around with the WS2000, I came up with something similar.

Like you I’m use to using progressively finer grits to hone the edge of my chisels and the two planes I own. The two big advantages of the WS system are: #1 the ease and speed with which the wheels (grits) can be swapped and #2 the built in angle jig.

Yesterday I cut 5” rounds of several grits of paper 150, 240, 400, 600, and 1200, the last two being wet / dry paper. These I attached with spray adhesive to the WS2000 wheels (it comes with two and I bought an abrasive kit that included another one). Although I didn’t need to start from scratch with any of my chisels, I was able to take a several reasonably well dulled tools and get a “scary” sharp edge by running them through the last three grits and then finishing up on my cloth polishing wheel (one side of my grinder) with red (Plexiglas) polishing compound. It took only about five minutes per chisel including wheel changes which the WS2000 really simplifies. Since I did the 1st unit individually not knowing ahead of time what the results would be, I made twice the actual number of wheel changes. From now on I’ll run the entire group through one grit before changing the wheel to the next higher grit.

The bottom line is that I’m now happy that I bought the unit and feel confident that I can get the type of edge I need quickly and very easily.

I do plan on trying out the different compounds you mentioned though. I find the idea of using compound instead of expensive paper quite intriguing and if I can get the same results using inexpensive compounds as opposed to expensive papers, alls the better!

-- JMP

Emeralds: How thick are the Ws2000 disks. Could you substute a 1/2” MDF wheel with polishing compound and do it that way.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Thanks Karson for a very interesting solution. I think I have just the electric motor to use for this…

-- ...it's rennovation time!!!

Once again your brilliance shines through , Karson ! Thank you : )

-- You know you're getting old when you know the difference between you're (you are) and your (belonging to you) AND how to use them in a sentence .

Why thanks Dusty.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Great idea Karson, I love its simplicity. Are you still using this system or have you modified this one?

Steve

-- As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17) †

Steve: I’m using it as is. Some modifications that I have on my mind that I’ve not made yet.

1: Remaking the coarse one to put the bolt head below the surface like the rest of the disks.
2: Fill in the hole in the disks with Bondo so that the total surface is smooth. That way the chisle or plane iron does’t slip into the hole in a monent of inatention.
3: Make a disk for some newer Polishing compound that I purchased. I got a block of polishing compound from Grizzly that is used to put the final gloss on guitars. I assumed it was really fine. It cost $25.00 for the block while the others were $5.00 a block.
4: Make a couple of disks and stick PSA sandpaper to them. Probably 200, 320, 400 and 600. I think I also have some diamond disks that I put on with spray adhesive. And some polishing disks that are used in the glass fiber industry to polish the ends of glass fibers before attaching them together.

These changes would allow me to restore a blade a lot faster if it was really pitted and rough looking.

A design I keep thinking about is an adjustable angle that would allow me to keep the chisle angle more consistant instead of the free hand that I use now. Not really necessary, because you only cut with the real tip sort of a micro bevel but still a design kicking around in my mind.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †