The chair (design) that will not go away

I wish I had your design sense. But I actually found myself really interested in reading about your process. Thanks for chronicling it in such detail.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.blakeweberwoodworking.com

Great post! Lots of good information. I have a chair or two on my list of things to make.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

As I was reading that I thought to my self. What about the base being a reverse curve like a rocker but upside down. That bring the back and the base into similar but inverse curves. Your wooden designs show a flatsided curve. maybe make it more flowing

The arm could then be assembled off a tangent from the base curve and attached to the back as a support.

I’m not a designer. But, that how I’m visualizing it.

Great info.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

fritz-

This is a great design. I really love it. I wold look into using a finger joint there instead of a bridle. Only because it provides more long grain to long grain glue surface. But other than that it is a beautiful design.

-- Kaleo , http://www.kalafinefurniture.com

What a fascinating process to watch evolve. Thanks for so much detail.

Very cool design! I’m definitely impressed with your design sense. I was having self esteem issues with my design ability before I read your post. Now? Let’s just not go there ;)

Seriously, I can’t wait to see the finished chair.

-- "Give me your poor tools, your tired steel, your huddled masses of rust." Yep, I ripped off the Statue of Liberty. That's how I roll!

Thank you for this post, it is nice to see how others work through issues and especially someone like yourself as an architect.

-- Hope Never fails

awesome.
You sure put a lot of work into the plan and what a great chair!

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

its amazing how much time goes into a single item to get it just right

-- making sawdust....

Very nice chair. For a base/arms I think a triangle would work pretty well. One side on the floor, one side parallel to the seat, and then a vertical piece at the front. Use a bent lamination to get some nice curves on the corners, and it would look great. You’d connect the two triangles with a rail behind the seat similar to how an adirondack is constructed.

Really nice work so far though (and the metal would be cool too, I just like the thought of keeping it all redwood)

Damian

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

I think Karson’s idea is really interesting. I like your concept sketch Fritz and the simple base/arm does work well with the back and seat.
Now I hope I haven’t overstepped my bounds but Karson’s suggestion sounded very simple and I sketched up my interpretation of his comments on the curved base. It does compliment the back and seat well and it has a organic flow, which would tie it into it’s surroundings very well. I’m assuming a pool deck or perhaps a lania overlooking the water.

I do like the concept and the rough sketch works very well for me. Sometimes I will get distracted by the “how” and begin to make compromises in the design which almost always end badly.

So, thanks for posting this, it is interesting to read how others approach design issues. It really is a help for me personally.
take care,
harold

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

Wow! Thanks to everyone for the feedback and input. I am reminded that this is one of the great benefits of Community. Peers sharing ideas, inciting new visions and congratulating one another for the small victories that keep us invigorated about our craft.

Harold, first off, thanks for blowing my sketching out of the water…... man, you’ve got skills! I love your and Karson’s take on a possible design. Thanks for putting down your thoughts and taking the time to scan & post!

Kaleo, An alternative joinery technique most definitely will help. Thanks for pointing that out as I would like to see the whole seat body remain the same wood.

Damian, it sounds like your idea is similar to Harold’s sketch only rectilinear with a vertical support on the front. I like that idea as it may help accentuate the subtle curve of the seat.

and here I thought I was getting closer to finalizing the thing. one step forward, four steps back :)

Thanks again everyone!

-- Fritz Oakland, Ca http://www.muegenburg.com (dedicated to my other hobby)

I also love the base of the Thos. Moser vita chair, which is also done with tapered laminations.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

Ditto, that’s a great chair!

Alright, here is a rookie question, any references for creating tapered laminations. I get the basic form, glue, clamp of bent laminations, but how do you cut such a thin workpiece appropriate for bending with a taper….? anyone?

-- Fritz Oakland, Ca http://www.muegenburg.com (dedicated to my other hobby)

I use a tapering jig that I run thru my drum sander, depending on the type of wood you use, a planer would also work if the blades were sharp. My jigs are made from MDF I rip a 3” piece of MDF, this gives me alittle room (1/2”+/-) on each side of the material I intend to taper. I will take two strips that have a line snapped on them that represents the taper I want and then screw these two to the “jig” using the line to achieve the taper. I use my router to remove the material in the jig where the wood will sit. (the router base plate rides on the strips attatched to the sides, acting as a depth guide for the router) After I rmove the strips, I end up with a piece of MDF with a shallow tapered recess. I rip the material I plan on using for the laminations on the table saw, adding a 1/16” or more to fat end to allow for planing and or sanding.(BE CAREFUL RIPPING THIN STRIPS! keep you blade low and use a thin push stick) I don’t use male/female forms because the final thickness of the laminations must be exact, instead I use a steel caul, a suitable piece can be found at HD the 1-1/2” wide x apx 1/4”thick and is 4’ long. I have some pictures I will try and find them.

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

I kinda get the idea, but I’m sure pictures will speak a thousand more words…. so it would be great to see those if you can find the time. After checking out your cantilevered display table, you clearly have a handle on bent laminations.

-- Fritz Oakland, Ca http://www.muegenburg.com (dedicated to my other hobby)

Here a a few pictures, the first is a couple tapering jigs that still have the depth guides for the router attatched
this next picture is of the glue form I use for the walking sticks
Walking stick glued up in jig
and this last picture is of a rocking chair runner glue up in a similar jig

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

Harrold,

Your clamps are threaded rod with a stick through the form held on with nuts and a stick on the lamination held on with either nuts or tension?

Cool!

-- Scott - Chico California http://chicowoodnut.home.comcast.net

Great design on the tapering jig and gluing frame.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

The top section is cut from 1/4” flat bar which connects with allthread to the pipe on each side of whatever I’m gluing. I’m not sure if the od of the pipe is 3/4” or 7/8” (i’ll have to check) it does work well. I made up 32 sets or clamps if you will, for about $25, maybe took 3 hours to cut and drill everything. All my laminating jigs use this style clamping system. I have another set that have the holes in the pipe tapped and use 5/16” x 6” bolts, which is much quicker. I tighten the nuts/bolts with a nut driver in my cordless and then snug them up with a ratchet. I use the thin flat bar as the top caul. Now the bottom picture, the rocker glue up, is with polyurethane glue and it does not have a long open time. with poly it’s a two person job, the poly can handle a alittle more clamping pressure. I use a the iron from my toothing plane to “scratch” the laminations. If you are unsure about whether the open time will be an issue, don’t bother with the poly, it’s a mess. If it’s a complicated glue up I use a 2 part epoxy, I wet the all the surfaces first and then thicken the remainder and recoat each, just in case. Now you can starve an epoxy joint so you need to be aware of your clamping pressure. I will always clamp up the lamination a couple days before and let the wood relax in the jig. If I have a problem with my joints I will take it apart and refit until it’s right. On the small table I used fiberglass tape between the laminations, which makes the piece very ridgid, but the glue joints are a distraction for me personally.

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

So when the lamination is set, and you take it out, how do you square up the ragged sides?

-- Scott - Chico California http://chicowoodnut.home.comcast.net

I’ll use the bandsaw to remove the excess foam and then runit thru the planer or drum sander depending on wood type, for example the rocking chair runner was silk oak and it will tear out in the planer. I’ll try and write up a topic for this jig,it seems like I’m getting alittle off topic here

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

Fritz, have you tried going back to your original sketch, it really does work. If you still have the base you made up, I would try cutting off the arm rests and re-cut the angle on the bottoms to give you the slight slope to the rear. Maybe try cheating it forward abit so that the backrest connection goes thru the joint in the rear. I would try that, put it together and see how it sits. I do like the subtle curves in your concept sketch so once the chair is together I would make paper templates and attatch them to the fitted chair and just look at it for a day or two. I’m afraid we may have distracted you, but I have to admit that your concept sketch is the what I keep returning to, interesting how that works.

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

Harold: First, thanks for posting all those getting pics of your clamping setup. I am always stuck thinking in conventional ways about clamping and the idea of setting 30 some odd clamps to get your walking sticks glued up would be a joke…. obviously you figured that out pretty quickly and your solution is elegant and maybe more importantly, infinitely repeatable without requiring a ton of dedicated clamps and awkward positioning of loose clamps every time. genius! thanks for helping me see outside my own box!

As for the chair support, here is the dilemma. As in my original sketch, there was no separate armrest. The original intent in the concept sketch was that the single form leg would be tall enough and the seat would sit low enough that the top of the leg support would act as an armrest. Once i worked it up in CAD, the real dimensions would have put the seat pan at around 7” off the floor…... sort of an uncomfortable height (for a patio/deck chair). And even at that low height, the armrest still wasn’t high enough to be really comfortable for the average person. The chair is meant for relaxing and I am a firm believer that a lounge chair has to have armrests. Here are a couple of early CAD iterations that illustrate the height issues….. raise the armrest higher and the base gets longer or the angle of the legs gets steeper. Neither of which maintain the same design intended in the original concept sketch. It was this realization that took me down the road of adding an extended height arm rest so I could leave the leg base at the lower originally designed height.

Upon your prompting I will go back and revisit the concept with a fresh set of eyes and see if I can’t find the solution hidden in there somewhere. Perhaps the freedom offered by laminate bending or tapered laminate bending will produce some inspiration.

Here’s version number 1:

And a little further developed. Still too low and the reclining angle is way too high.

-- Fritz Oakland, Ca http://www.muegenburg.com (dedicated to my other hobby)

How’s the chair coming along? I have been watching the weather on the west coast, looks like the surf has been pretty good. Sometimes there just aren’t enough hours in the day.

-- If knowledge is not shared, it is forgotten.

Still on the back burner Harold. Thanks for checkin in though! A funny thing happened while I was trying to design and build my never completed, Not just any box entry. I realized the school shop i where I take classes is only good for the table saw. So, I have been working on getting setup at home to do most other tasks. Right now I’m putting the finishing touches on a benchtop router table….. will post that soon.

I will certainly post when I get the chair back on track.

-- Fritz Oakland, Ca http://www.muegenburg.com (dedicated to my other hobby)