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THE JOURNEY INTO RESTORING OLD TOOLS #4: Removing Rust with Citric Acid 2

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Blog entry by Dennisgrosen posted 02-12-2011 12:53 PM 7050 reads 1 time favorited 19 comments Add to Favorites Watch
« Part 3: Removing Rust with Citric Acid 1 Part 4 of THE JOURNEY INTO RESTORING OLD TOOLS series Part 5: Soap #1 »

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Removing Rust with Citric Acid 2
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Remember this is a travel into a new world for me and I will try different methods along the way .
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Feel free to smile , luagh ,come with comments and advice´s along the way ,since most of what I write , you proppebly already know .
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The only thing you have to do, to have the oppetunity for it , is to submit to my punishment of the english language and sick humor
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what I do hope is that you can pick up one or two things you can use yourself
and enjoy the journey with a me.
I will try to devide the blogs so people with slow conections (myself incl.) can have the joy too or at least have the oppetunity to make a rant over the things I try in the labritory (cave)...lol

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Little more to the nerd´s and historic interrested
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The discovery of Citric acid has the iraq born in 8th century Islamic alchemist Jabir Ibn Hayyan credit for but it wasn´t before in 1784 Citric acid was first isolated by the Swedish chemist Carl Wilhelm Scheele, who crystallized it from lemon juice. Industrial-scale citric acid production began in 1890 based on the Italien citrus fruit industri
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The real nerd´s and historic intrrested can go to wikipedia and read more :-)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_
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In the last episode we left when the disastre hit , since then the toolbox is back in ordre fit for fight when needed and it did gave me inspiration to do something with the mess of all the movingbox´s filled with tools
so now the shop is reorganised and I can see the floor again and have little room to work in when I refurb/restore the tools but let us come back to the day when I started with the Citric acid and now with two cradles under the gutter :—)
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Now we can continue
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I thought it shuold be a ½ hour to 40 minuts little project to clean the sawblades since I started with 65 degree celcius
hot Citric acid but didn´t count on how difficult it wuold be to maintain the heat in the gutter …..zero chance of it and hat only used the half of the Citric acid Mr.Thompson had.
so it did take a bit longer around 3 hours mostly waiting time except for the minut I used a from time to time
brushing lightly with a very soft brasswire brush on them on both sides ,not to waste to much time and the oppetunity
of using the rest of the Citric acid I dump a few irons from some old planes in the container as well
it was in the waiting time I got the crazy idea of trying to bring little ordre to what had been a shop once way back
behind a darkgrey cloud before L J.
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sawblades and some planeirons in the Citric acid
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after the 3 hours and the blades was derusted as I hoped for and clean ,a few thing to remember is
to get them thrugh some clean wather to get the acid of and dry the iron with a hairdryer or heatgun
so all the wather is of and re-oil all the parts you only have a few minuts before the rust start to explode
right into you face again
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. here you see the clean sawblades
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since I was excided about the result and knowing I just saved my vallet being emptyed for around
125 euro and it was 2 a´clock in the night + I gess a little lazyness at that time and I shuold up
6 a´clock and get to work I more or less forgot about the plane irons so they stayed in the Citric acid
until next day , witch was both bad and good
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remember this from the nerd section in the last episode
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Citric acid + rust yields iron oxide, carbon monoxide, water and hydrogen.
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C6H8O7 + Fe2O3—————-‡ 2 FeO + 6 CO + 2 H2O + 2 H2
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The balanced equation shows that 1 mole of citric acid will react with 1 mole of iron(III) oxide to produce 2 moles of Iron(II) oxide, 6 moles of carbon monoxide, 2 moles of water and 2 moles of hydrogen
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this is one of the time when you want you have some rubber or thin latex gloves to protect your hands from
some dirty nasty dung/thing/what ever you might call it …LOL…well its easy enoff to scrub of with some soap
and a brush and ain´t dangerus
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here you see what I meen ….not so good
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its easy enoff to clean the iron from the black dung with the rough side of a kitchen spunch before you
use a few minuts with the soft brasswire brush , remember fresh water ,drying with heatgun and oil right after :-)
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here you see three stages of the cleaning
before de-rusting, before the spunch and halfway thrugh with the spunch

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on the next pictures you see the irons after the cleaning , drying and re-oiling
the grey aria´s is not the dung but small holes where the rust had penetrated
deeper into the iron

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Warning….Warning don´t let cast-iron stay over night from what have descovered it doesn´t
seems to like it very much …even though its a mild acid its still an acid and the polished area
on one of my levercap´s now look like it comes directly from the pattern where it was made in
I will update with a picture later so you can see it

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Th-th-th-that´s all foks … thank´s for looking
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hope you will return in the next episode where you can hope I
return with some more interressting serius boreing stuff_
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Take care

Dennis



19 comments so far

View Schwieb's profile

Schwieb

1568 posts in 2207 days


#1 posted 02-12-2011 02:52 PM

There was probably a nickel coating on the part, I would think that the acid would react with the nickel as well. The plane irons are looking good Dennis, I can’t wait to get started.

-- Dr. Ken, Florida - Durch harte arbeit werden Träume wahr.

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1861 days


#2 posted 02-12-2011 03:16 PM

Ken:
there you got me ..:-)
havn´t thought of getting the iron nickel tested since I´m not allergy to it sofare
but cuold be an idea since my wife is but I can´t remember if my daughter is and after all
she has been interrested a little in woodworking and have her own bench beside me
in the shop
thank´s for bringing it up Ken I preciate it both becourse of the safty isue but a thing
I have to look into and see if the Swedish stealmakers used nickel many of the Danish
toolmakers used Swedish steal and still does I gess

take care
Dennis

View lilredweldingrod's profile

lilredweldingrod

2495 posts in 1852 days


#3 posted 02-12-2011 03:55 PM

Dennis, This gets more interesting each time. Thank you for taking the time to do this. A day where you learn something new is a great day indeed. Rand

View Dave's profile

Dave

11205 posts in 1585 days


#4 posted 02-12-2011 05:15 PM

Dennis I am amazed at the level of rust removal. Oh that poor 5’th iron. Who took a bite out of it . IRON MAN. ;) OK forgive my ignorance. My dad would say” boy your not stupid your just ignorant, you don’t know and haven’t been taught”. What is a mole?
At the edge of my seat waiting for the next episode!

-- Superdav "No matter where you go - there you are." http://chiselandforge.com

View steliart's profile

steliart

1816 posts in 1434 days


#5 posted 02-12-2011 05:39 PM

amazing blog Dennis as always
thanks

-- Stelios L.A. Stavrinides: - I am not so rich to buy cheap tools, but... necessity is the mother of inventions - http://www.steliart.com --

View Jim Bertelson's profile

Jim Bertelson

3684 posts in 1910 days


#6 posted 02-12-2011 05:41 PM

Citric acid…...hmmm…..probably explains the cleaning properties of Tang…......you put the Tang in the soap cup in your dishwasher and run a cycle and it cleans up the rust color in your dishwasher…...for those people that have hard water with iron in it.

-- Jim, Anchorage Alaska

View Bluepine38's profile

Bluepine38

2953 posts in 1831 days


#7 posted 02-12-2011 06:48 PM

Thanik you for sharing a new way to remove rust, as soon as I can acquire a new old tool, I will try it out.

-- As ever, Gus-the 76 yr young apprentice carpenter

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1861 days


#8 posted 02-12-2011 09:04 PM

Rand :
Thank´s :-)....I have set a goal many years ago for my self to try to learn three new things every day
nomatter how small they are I try very hard to do it , but I admit its difficult some day´s I don´t even learn
one tiny thing and other day´s I learn more than 50 and have to come around them a few more times
before the harddrive ( my daughter call a brain ) catch them ….LOL …its goes a lot easyer after I have joined
Lumber Jock :-)

Superdav :
A mole =molecule and is one of the tinyest thing , things are made of I can´t explain it better in english
I´m sure there is one or two cemist on L J that can do ot alot smarter and better than I can :-)
yes I was realy surpriced my self since this was my first try with it
and the iron ….well almost the hole plane was trashed since I had ruogh time taken it out who ,when
and why it has been demolished like that I don´t know I had an idea of had posted the plane in the gone
coffee lounge under the head line IF YOU DARE TO LOOK , THEN YOU WILL SCREAM AND CRY FOR DAY`S
and now I thought it cuold be used in the first try of using Citric to check the result :-)

Steliart :
thank´s and thanks for looking :-)

Jim :
sorry don´t know what TANG is are talking about the green stuff that growes in the ocean
were fish hiding in or…...........?
here in Denmark we use salt and something that let glasses be free of chalk from the water
and we do have realy hard wather here in most of Denmark

Gus :
hey :-) ... glad I cuold inspire you to try a new trick …update us with your opinion of it
compared to other methodes of rustremoving :-)

take care
Dennis

View Div's profile

Div

1653 posts in 1686 days


#9 posted 02-12-2011 09:11 PM

Dennis, I think you will have to take off the blue party hat now! This is serious stuff! A well researched blog, thanks for sharing. ” KIDS, GO PICK YOUR FATHER A BUCKET OF LEMONS…..!!!!”

-- Div @ the bottom end of Africa. "A woodworker's sharpest tool should be his mind."

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1861 days


#10 posted 02-12-2011 09:26 PM

Div : LOL..:—)) I will take it of realy soon since I´m promoted to wear a black now :-O
thank´s for the kind words
sometimes someone kick my little curios grey cell and wake it up to work hard …...LOL
but the worst part was to tumbled it together so I cuold try to make it understandble for all of you
and being so slow on the keyboard then its hard work…..believe me :-)
the best of it beside looking forward to have tools to work with is to share it with people
I´m realy humbled over every comment people give me

take care

Dennis

View Sheila Landry (scrollgirl)'s profile

Sheila Landry (scrollgirl)

7889 posts in 1665 days


#11 posted 02-12-2011 09:30 PM

Great blog, Dennis! I am really learning a lot. Thanks for taking the time to share.

Sheila

-- Designer/Artist/Teacher. Owner of Sheila Landry Designs (http://www.sheilalandrydesigns.com) Scroll saw, wood working and painting patterns and surfaces. "Knowledge is Power"

View Jim Bertelson's profile

Jim Bertelson

3684 posts in 1910 days


#12 posted 02-12-2011 10:38 PM

Tang is an old powdered orange flavored drink, has the vits and the acid, but the flavor is not quite the same as orange juice. Apparently they took it on the Apollo flights to the moon.

-- Jim, Anchorage Alaska

View mafe's profile

mafe

9670 posts in 1835 days


#13 posted 02-12-2011 10:42 PM

Looking good Dennis.
You really did a fine job.
Best thoughts,
Mads

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

View Dennisgrosen's profile

Dennisgrosen

10850 posts in 1861 days


#14 posted 02-13-2011 01:54 AM

Sheila : thank´s

Jim : thank´s for the explanation I think I know it but can´t remember the name in Danish

Mads : thank´s I tryed but cuold have been better I just hope I got all the importen
stuff writen down so people can understand it and give it a chance next time since it is
reasenble fast if you don´t want a polished look then you have to add the time to do it too

take care
Dennis

View swirt's profile

swirt

1952 posts in 1717 days


#15 posted 02-13-2011 06:30 AM

Great fun to read Dennis. The saws look great.

One thing that saves me a bit of time (which I am sure I squander somewhere else). Instead of the whole heat drying then hurry up and oil, I just do the water rinse and scrub as you do, but then pat it dry and spray liberally with WD-40. The “WD” stands for water displacer, so it does a good job of moving the water off the steel and teh “oils” in the stuff float the water until it the water evaporates. It can save you a lot of time with the hot dryer. It does prevent the flash rusting pretty well.

A mole is not equal to a molecule. A mole is a number, like a dozen. Only instead of being 12 it is 6.02×10^23 So it is a reeeaaaalllllyyyyy big number.

-- Galootish log blog, http://www.timberframe-tools.com

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