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647K views 1K replies 132 participants last post by  Slufbeer 
#1 ·
And then there were two.

I decided to dedicate my time this winter to restoring various saws I've acquired over the past year. I'll be restoring half-rip saws, panel saws, tenon saws, carcass saws and dovetail saws from a variety of makers, dating from the 1840s up to the 1960s. Now don't worry I'm not going to bore you with repetitive photos of me removing rust, shining saw plates, polishing brass and refinishing totes. I covered the process I use for these steps in my blog The Restoration of a 14" Tenon Saw so you can refer back to that if you'd like to see how I go about it. Instead, I'd like to use this blog series to do the following:

  1. Show the before and after photos of each saw restoration - well we all need some eye candy in our lives don't we?
  2. Provide details of anything I had to do to a particular saw that was not covered in the above blog.
  3. Share any historical or otherwise interesting information I find out about each saw.
  4. Discuss various saw design features, how these features changed over the years and how they can help to date a saw.

So I might be jumping around a bit from post to post and even within the same post. I make no apology for that, it's just the way my mind works. Deal with it, I have to. The blog will culminate with the building of a saw vise, sharpening the saws to task and taking them all for a test drive. I hope you'll all come along for the ride and contribute your own knowledge, thoughts and experience to the saw talk.

Disclaimer: Before we start, I'd like to point out that I'm not claiming to be an expert on saws by writing this blog series, just sharing what I experience and find out in the course of restoring and researching the saws I've purchased. I hope you'll find it interesting and/or useful.

So let's get started. In my last blog, you saw me restore Big Joe, a 14" 10 TPI tenon saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner around 1887.

Gas Wood Rectangle Tool Household hardware


It seemed only natural that the next saw I should select from the pile was another saw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner made around the same period. This time it's a 12" carcass saw currently filed 12 TPI rip. Here's how the saw looked when I received it.

Brown Rectangle Tool Wood Hand tool


As you can see it's missing a split nut on the back of the medallion. I'll probably make one if I can't find one anywhere.

There was an issue with the saw plate on this particular saw that is worth mentioning. It was difficult to photograph, but when I sighted down the tooth line from one end, the teeth weren't in a straight line. Instead they bent round in a slight arc from end to end. I tried to show it in the following photo, but it isn't very clear I'm afraid.

Wood Plant Grass Hardwood Cross


This is not uncommon in old backsaws. When I researched it, I found that it occurs because the saw plate has somehow slipped slightly at one end of the saw's back or spine. It doesn't need to slip much to cause this effect and often you can't see any witness line to show that the saw plate has shifted. Luckily though, it's a really simple fix and here's how you do it. Clamp the end opposite the handle in a vise as shown below.

Wood Grass Gas Natural material Cooking


Tap the saw back with a mallet. It doesn't take much so don't overdo it.

Wood Grass Musical instrument Tool Wind instrument


Remove the saw from the vise after each tap and check your progress. If the tooth line still isn't straight, put it back in the vise and hit it slightly harder in the same place, then check it again. Mine straightened up after the third tap.

Writing implement Gesture Office supplies Finger Writing instrument accessory


CAUTION: Please don't tap the handle end of the saw's back. If you do, you might have difficulty refitting the handle as the bolt holes in the saw plate will have shifted relative to the holes in the handle.

I have read that an alternative way of removing a wave from the tooth line is to hold the saw plate with the teeth uppermost and the handle end towards you, then tap the toe end of the saw back on your workbench. I haven't tried this method, but it sounds feasible.

So here is the saw after restoration.

Hand tool Wood Tool Household hardware Rectangle


There was a fair bit of pitting on this saw, but it isn't bad enough to affect how the saw performs. I like a shiny saw plate on my backsaws, at least enough to see the reflection of the wood I'm cutting. However, it's worth pointing out something with regard to shining a saw plate on an old saw. Most of the old saws that I've seen have some pitting. It is impossible to sand out all of the pitting without significantly altering the thickness of the saw plate. If you aren't bothered about the saw plate being shiny, it is better to stop sanding at P400. That way the pitting will be less obvious than if you continue sanding up to P1200 or P1500 like I did here.

I'm really glad I bought these saws, because although I didn't know it at the time, both of these totes fit my hand perfectly. I know everyone's hands are different, but I consider myself really lucky to have stumbled upon a handle design that could have been modeled around my hands. When I grip them they fill my hand nicely, neither too big or too small and the horns seem to wrap around my fist enabling me to support the weight of the saws effortlessly. The bump on the back of the grip nestles in my palm and my fingers don't feel the least bit cramped. God bless the saw handle makers of old. They knew what they were doing back then.

Gesture Finger Nail Thumb Wood


Finger Scaled reptile Snake Wood Serpent


So here are the two saws together. I think they make a nice pair if I do say so myself.

Wood Rectangle Metal Household hardware Tool


When I was filing and sanding this saw handle, it made me remember an old comedy sketch that is affectionately known here in the UK as the 'Fork Handles' sketch. It is the work of two old English comedians called Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett, otherwise known as The Two Ronnies. The memory of it made me laugh out loud and I just thought I'd share the joy.

 

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#165 ·
Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration

2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.

I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as Proud to be British. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.

Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).

Headgear Fontange Victorian fashion Art Headpiece


During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Ecoregion World Map Font Atlas


This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.

The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.

Building Urban design Landscape City Cloud


Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.

Plant Sky Tree Building Shade


There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.

Painting Art Holy places Visual arts History


Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…

"…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).

Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.

Flower Plant Building Window Street light


Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.

Wood Trigger Font Toy Shotgun


They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:

Handwriting Font Wood Rectangle Writing


Font Circle Pattern Art Logo


Art Font Wood Terrestrial animal Working animal


Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.

If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.

Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.

Hand tool Rectangle Tool Wood Ruler


Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.

The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.

Font Document


So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.

Shield Font Triangle Guitar accessory Saw


Triangle Font Shield Art Symbol


Wood Red Font Symbol Carmine


Wood Font Art Bicycle part Carmine


GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…
 

Attachments

#166 ·
Cowell and Chapman 14" Backsaw Restoration

2012 is a big year for Britain. Not only are we hosting the Olympics, but we're also celebrating the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession to the throne. It's Her Majesty's diamond jubilee. Even my wife is organizing a street party for around 200 residents and I've been roped into building all kinds of weird and wonderful things for the day. Yes folks, marquees will be erected, brass bands will strike up, flags will be waved and I'm sure we'll all feel very patriotic by the end of it.

I've also noticed something strange happening to the goods in our shops. Slowly but surely, more and more items seem to sport a Union Jack on their tickets or slogans such as Proud to be British. It's ok though because if you turn them over, they still say Made in China. Events like these are a gift to the commercial world. Companies are always looking for a marketing edge; something that will give them a leg up in the competitive jungle of consumerism.

Now you're probably wondering why I'm mentioning these events on a saw blog. Well because it was in a patriotic climate such as this that our next saw was made and the retailer was quick to capitalize on the events of the day. The year was 1887 and the country was celebrating Queen Victoria's golden jubilee (50 years).

Headgear Fontange Victorian fashion Art Headpiece


During the course of the year, many celebratory events took place right across the land. The occasion of interest to us though, occurred in the north east of England in a town called Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Ecoregion World Map Font Atlas


This was a proud industrial town, well-respected in the mining, ship building, arms and transport industries. As woodworkers, we often get excited by such events as Woodworking in America or the European Woodworking Show. Well let me tell you, these events pale into insignificance alongside the events staged by our Victorian forbears. The Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers hosted an event of gargantuan proportions to showcase local trade and industry in North East England.

The Royal Jubilee Exhibition, as it became known, sprung up on the outskirts of Newcastle, in an area known locally as Bull Park (where the town's bull had once been penned). Even though the exhibition was only to last for 180 days, they constructed hugely extravagant buildings of steel, wood, stone and glass as only they knew how.

Building Urban design Landscape City Cloud


Four great pavilions were erected, in the centre of which they planted a formal garden. In the middle of the garden was an ornate bandstand which still exists to this day and is due to be renovated this year.

Plant Sky Tree Building Shade


There was also a theatre, art galleries and a section dedicated to photography. To the right of the great halls, there was a lake. I'm not sure if they dug out the lake for this event, but I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless, it was a nice feature to have and one the crowds would enjoy. However, they weren't satisfied with just the lake. They built a replica of the old Tyne Bridge that had originally been erected in 1250 AD to span the river Tyne. The real bridge had been partially damaged in the great flood of 1771.

Painting Art Holy places Visual arts History


Around 400 exhibitors showed off their wares and over 2 million paying visitors came from miles around to marvel at the country's skill and ingenuity and wallow in Britain's industrial might. Nowadays it is easy for us to sit in our armchairs and find out everything about anything simply by clicking a Search button, but in 1887 this exhibition must have been quite a sight to behold. In fact when the Institute wrote to the Mayor proposing the idea, they stated that there were…

"…no other means so efficient, so rapid, and so economical of bringing together the producer and consumer as an exhibition of that character". (Newcastle Daily Chronicle, May 12 1887).

Two of the exhibitors at this event were William Cowell and William Withers Chapman, who for a number of years had been the proprietors of a hardware store situated at 11 Pilgrim Street in the center of the town. Pilgrim Street still exists today and many of the buildings retain their old facades.

Flower Plant Building Window Street light


Cowell and Chapman were partners and listed their profession as General Hardwaremen and Plane Makers. During the course of my research, I discovered some of their plough planes (plow in the US) as far afield as Australia, America and France.

Wood Trigger Font Toy Shotgun


They weren't particularly known for their saws though and yet it was their names that appeared on my saw plate. However, I quickly realized that they hadn't made the saw at all, but were merely resellers. Take a look at the etch on the saw's plate and see if it gives you any clues as to the manufacturer. From left to right, the etch reads:

Handwriting Font Wood Rectangle Writing


Font Circle Pattern Art Logo


Art Font Wood Terrestrial animal Working animal


Yes, it's Nelly the elephant again my friends. This saw was made my W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner. It might have been assembled and sharpened by Cowell and Chapman to a particular customer's specifications, but they didn't make it.

If you take another look at the aerial photo above showing the exhibition pavilions, you will notice that the etching is a rendition of the three arches that formed the main entrance to the exhibition. You can see the two towers and the statue of Britannia in the middle.

Here is the saw as I received it. The saw is 14" long with a 4" depth of cut. It's filed 10 ½ TPI crosscut or to put it another way, 21 teeth every two inches. The handle is exactly the same as Big Joe, my steel-backed 14" backsaw by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner. As you can see there is a fair bit of pitting, certainly too much to remove without also removing the etch.

Hand tool Rectangle Tool Wood Ruler


Now if this was a common saw with a common etch, I would have no compunction in sanding the saw plate. Of course I would do my best to keep the etch, but if it wasn't possible it wouldn't be the end of the world. However this isn't a common saw. For all I know, this could be the only surviving saw from Cowell and Chapman bearing this historic etch. While it is in my custody I won't be doing anything except cleaning and polishing it so that the next owner can hopefully get as much pleasure from owning it as I do. I did decide to refinish the handle though because the finish was wearing very thin in places and the bottom horn had a tiny chip that was annoying me.

The following exert from the London Gazette reveals that Cowell and Chapman parted company on 31st December 1899. The business was carried on thereafter by William Cowell.

Font Document


So here's the finished saw, all ready for another 125 years hard labor.

Shield Font Triangle Guitar accessory Saw


Triangle Font Shield Art Symbol


Wood Red Font Symbol Carmine


Wood Font Art Bicycle part Carmine


GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HIP, HIP…
I'll second that. That's a really interesting story and the link with the plane is great. I doubt that we will see any similar products made this year that will survive for another 125 years. Thanks for letting us into the history and congratulations on a great restoration job.
Jim
 

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#211 ·
Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration

Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.

Font Poster Event Circle Art


They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.

Wood Rectangle Household hardware Metal Font


Wood Art Metal Font Hardwood


Wood Font Nameplate Metal Hardwood


Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.

Property Map Infrastructure Slope Land lot


The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.

Water Cloud Sky Plant Water resources


Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.

When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.

Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.

Water Sky Cloud Waterfall Natural landscape


The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.

Twig Font Terrestrial plant Slope Fashion accessory


When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.

Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.

The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.

Sky Pollution Building Building material Event


Wheel Motor vehicle Vehicle Tire Working animal


Adaptation History House Event Paper product


Font Rectangle Grass Commemorative plaque Groundcover


The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.

Font Parallel Screenshot Number Rectangle


For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.

All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.

Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.

This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.

Liquid Water Grey Tints and shades Moisture


By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar :) ).

Brown Wood Wood stain Circle Hardwood


I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.

Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.

Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.

Wood Household hardware Font Nut Metal


I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.

Eye Wood Eyelash Art Close-up


The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.

Wood Tints and shades Natural landscape Natural material Artifact


I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.

First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.

Wood Terrestrial plant Art Natural material Font


Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.

Wood Font Metal Art Hardwood


Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.

Wood Natural material Wood stain Metal Hardwood


Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.

Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.

Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.

Musical instrument Guitar accessory Wood Rectangle Dead bolt


Wood Art Creative arts Varnish Font


Wood Sculpture Art Creative arts Human leg


Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.

In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.

Thanks for watching!
 

Attachments

#212 ·
Drabble and Sanderson 14" Backsaw Restoration

Friday March 11th 1864 was a day much like any other day for Thomas Wilkinson. He and his partner Robert Howden had been working hard at the Ebenezer Steel Works in Sheffield, where they traded under the name of Drabble and Sanderson.

Font Poster Event Circle Art


They'd built up quite a reputation for their files and edge tools and in particular their saws, such as this 14" 12TPI backsaw, filed rip.

Wood Rectangle Household hardware Metal Font


Wood Art Metal Font Hardwood


Wood Font Nameplate Metal Hardwood


Thomas locked up for the night and prepared himself for the short walk to his lodgings at a house on the premises of the Neepsend Tannery. The weather that night was atrocious with gale force winds and driving, horizontal rain. Since it showed no sign of letting up, Thomas turned up his collar, lit his cigarette and stepped into the storm. His pace was purposeful as he stepped onto the Iron Bridge spanning the River Don. The water level was high and he found himself reflecting on how important water was to Sheffield.

Property Map Infrastructure Slope Land lot


The reputation of Sheffield steel and the products made from it had meant an increase in demand for Drabble and Sanderson, as well as all of the other steel works and manufactories in the town. However this increased output was putting a strain on the town's water supplies. To meet the demand, the Sheffield Waterworks Company was in the process of constructing a huge reservoir at Bradfield, approximately 8 miles from the town and several hundred feet above it. The reservoir, called Dale ********************, was 80 to 90 feet deep in the middle, 1 mile long and a ¼ mile wide.

Water Cloud Sky Plant Water resources


Now nearing completion, it had been no small feat to construct the embankment which was 500 feet wide at the base, 12 feet wide at the top and consisted of 400,000 cubic yards of material. The weir to carry off the overflow was 60 feet wide. Thomas felt a sense of pride for all the town had achieved and looked forward to receiving a reliable supply of water for his business.

When he arrived home, he dried himself off, ate his supper and retired to bed in his room on the ground floor. As the rain lashed against his window, Thomas drifted off to sleep, blissfully unaware of the events that were soon to unfold.

Earlier that day, at around 5.30pm, a workman at the dam had noticed a small crack in the embankment big enough to admit a penknife and stretching down the embankment for about 50 yards. He thought it was a frost crack, but told another workman about it, who told a farmer, who told Mr Swinden, one of the water company's overlookers. At 7.00pm, he gathered a party together and they went with lanterns to examine the crack. At this time the crack was wide enough for a man's fingers. They returned home sometime after 9.00pm, having been assured by the dam's contractors and workmen that there was no danger. Later, Mr Gunson, the site engineer arrived on the scene and by this time the crack was large enough for a man's hand. They tried to blow up the weir with gunpowder to relieve the pressure on the dam, but it failed to ignite. The crack continued to worsen and shortly before midnight the dam gave way. 691 million gallons of water rushed down the hillside devastating everything in its path.

Water Sky Cloud Waterfall Natural landscape


The wall of water uprooted trees as it raced down the valley turning them into involuntary battering rams. Houses and cottages closest to the reservoir took the full force and were completely demolished. One man commented that even a Derby horse could not have warned the town's inhabitants in time.

Twig Font Terrestrial plant Slope Fashion accessory


When the surge hit the Tannery, the buildings next to the river were obliterated and the rest of the premises were flooded to a considerable height. A large tree fell on the press-house reducing it to ruins. Two thousand skins were carried away and the stock and machinery suffered a good deal of damage.

Thomas, awakened by the destructive sound of the water, immediately leapt out of bed to find his room half-filled with water. Fearing for his life, he climbed out the window and jumped onto a cart that was standing nearby in the yard. The cart floated about the yard on the surface of the flood and Wilkinson being dressed in nothing but his nightgown, found the voyage by no means warm or agreeable.

The flood raged on for 30 minutes, leaving a trail of destruction 8 miles long in its wake. Around 250 men, women and children lost their lives and many more were injured. 415 dwelling houses, 106 factories and shops, 64 other buildings, 20 bridges and 4478 cottage/market gardens were either partially or totally destroyed. To this day, the Sheffield Flood of 1864 remains one of the biggest man-made disasters in British history.

Sky Pollution Building Building material Event


Wheel Motor vehicle Vehicle Tire Working animal


Adaptation History House Event Paper product


Font Rectangle Grass Commemorative plaque Groundcover


The Sheffield Waterworks Company was found to be liable and following a special Act of Parliament, compensation to the tune of £273,988 was paid for damage to property, injury to persons, and loss of life. It was one of the largest insurance awards of its time and included this claim by Drabble and Sanderson.

Font Parallel Screenshot Number Rectangle


For those of you who like history, there is a fabulously detailed, well-written account of the Sheffield Flood by a journalist of the time. You can find it here.

All of the claims that were made have been uploaded and made available online along with maps showing their location in the town. The claims give a fascinating insight into Sheffield life in the 1860s. Here's a link to the site.

Well that was the history lesson (obviously part fiction, part fact), now back to the saw.

This is the first saw I've restored that someone else has had a go at first. When I received the saw, the plate had already been de-rusted, probably using electrolysis. The plate was deeply pitted and scratched.

Liquid Water Grey Tints and shades Moisture


By the look of the split-nuts, they'd obviously tried to undo them (probably with a crow bar :) ).

Brown Wood Wood stain Circle Hardwood


I don't blame them for giving up though, because although the split nuts came off easily enough, the bolts were a very tight fit in the plate and I really had to apply some force to get them out. Consequently, the threads got a bit deformed as they passed through the plate. I had to re-cut the threads, using the split nuts as dies. I just gripped the square shank of the bolt with a pair of pliers and started the nut on the thread. Then, I screwed it on until it became tight, loosened it a bit and then re-tightened it going a bit further than before. I kept loosening and tightening it until the nut had re-established all of the thread.

Just as a point of interest, although there are a few examples of D&S hand saws with medallions, most of their saws did not have one and I've never seen one on a backsaw.

Once I got the handle off, it became obvious that it had remained on while the saw was de-rusted.

Wood Household hardware Font Nut Metal


I think they'd just removed the saw from the bath, dried it off and rubbed some dark wax over the handle so it looked good in the photos.

Eye Wood Eyelash Art Close-up


The handle was pretty worn in places and I could tell it would take quite a bit of work to restore it. Even then, I knew it would never look great.

Wood Tints and shades Natural landscape Natural material Artifact


I haven't been able to find any documentary evidence to indicate when this saw was made, but there are a number of things that lead me to believe this saw was produced sometime around 1855 to 1865.

First there is the rounded nib. This was a feature on older saw handles. On later saws, the nibs tended to come to a point.

Wood Terrestrial plant Art Natural material Font


Secondly, notice the elongated cheek. On older English saws the cheeks came down lower, covering more of the saw plate.

Wood Font Metal Art Hardwood


Thirdly, this saw has rounded chamfers. Later saws tended to have flat chamfers around the cheeks.

Wood Natural material Wood stain Metal Hardwood


Fourthly, there's the canted plate which goes from 3 3/16" at the toe to 3 3/8" at the heel. Canted blades were common on older saws.

Fifthly, there's the wood itself. Its condition and the amount of damage/wear, leads me to think it is old.

Of course none of these things are conclusive and my gut could be way off, but sometimes it is all you have to go on. Anyhow, I went through the pain barrier and here's the finished saw. It isn't brilliant, but it's the best I could do considering what I had to start with.

Musical instrument Guitar accessory Wood Rectangle Dead bolt


Wood Art Creative arts Varnish Font


Wood Sculpture Art Creative arts Human leg


Well that was the last of the backsaws in my restoration pile. The hand saws will have to wait because as much as I love them, I honestly can't face restoring another saw at the moment.

In the next episode of this blog series, I'll move on to sharpening related topics and I'll start by showing you my design and build for a file holder and a saw vise.

Thanks for watching!
Not brilliant? That saw is almost 150 years old and you made it look better than some saws that are made today. I think you may have an unrealistically high set of standards :) Also eerie that it was March 11th - same day as the Japanese tsunami.
 

Attachments

#242 ·
File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers

Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.

I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.

Table Furniture Rectangle Wood Plank


Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.

Table Furniture Wood Rectangle Outdoor furniture


Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.

Wood Tool Gas Metalworking hand tool Wood stain


I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.

Plant Motor vehicle Handheld power drill Tool Grass


Here's the first channel done.

Wood Motor vehicle Saw Musical instrument Auto part


Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.

Wood Gas Tool Hardwood Automotive tire


Sawed out the waste…

Wood Metal Outdoor furniture Wood stain Composite material


…and trimmed it to length.

Wood Hand tool Crosscut saw Wood stain Tool


I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…

Hand tool Wood Plane Jack plane Tool


…and smoothed all the external surfaces.

Motor vehicle Wood Automotive exterior Automotive lighting Bumper


Wood Grass Plant Tree Tool


After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.

Table Plant Wood Outdoor furniture Rectangle


For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.

Wood Musical instrument Wood stain Hardwood Outdoor furniture


I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.

Musical instrument Wood Hardwood Plant Musical instrument accessory


Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.

Wood Rectangle Red Brick Kitchen utensil


Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.

Handheld power drill Pneumatic tool Tool Motor vehicle Font


First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.

Wood Tool Handheld power drill Metalworking hand tool Gas


Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.

Handheld power drill Wood Drill Tool Pneumatic tool


The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.

Wood Tool Burin Gas Hand tool


It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.

Pneumatic tool Automotive tire Wood Tool Drill


Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.

Hand tool Tool Wood Metalworking hand tool Stonemason's hammer


I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.

Wood Rectangle Musical instrument Hardwood Wood stain


So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.

Musical instrument Hand tool Tool Wood Metalworking hand tool


And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.

Hand tool Crosscut saw Wood Burin Metalworking hand tool


Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.

Wood Tool Metalworking hand tool Hand tool Gas


Hand tool Musical instrument Wood Tool Idiophone


Wood Tool Hand tool Revolver Everyday carry


This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.

Finger Gesture Body jewelry Thumb Sleeve


I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.

I'll get on and make the saw vise now.
 

Attachments

#243 ·
File Holder for Jointing Saws and Scrapers

Before I can sharpen my backsaws, I need to make two things: a file holder for jointing the teeth and a saw vise. I was going to post both of these items together, but I think the file holder deserves its own post. A file holder is also useful for jointing hand scrapers. Some people don't bother with a file holder and just hold the file with their hands, but it's easier to keep the file perpendicular to the teeth using a holder with a fence that rides against the side of the plate. I've seen a design for a holder that uses a wedge instead of a clamp, but personally I think the clamp is a better solution. There are some vintage file holders that surface on ebay from time to time and Veritas also make a aluminium (aluminum in the US) holder if you don't fancy making your own. I can guarantee that this one is more comfortable to hold though.

I did a quick drawing in Sketchup to work out the approximate dimensions. The body is 44mm by 44mm by 190mm long.

Table Furniture Rectangle Wood Plank


Here's an x-ray view so you can see the holes I need to drill. I actually ended up using four bolts instead of the three you see here. Also, these holes are for M6 bolts and I ended up using M4 bolts.

Table Furniture Wood Rectangle Outdoor furniture


Scavenging around in the scrap pile, I found an off-cut of sapele that would work for the body and some hard maple for the clamp.

Wood Tool Gas Metalworking hand tool Wood stain


I marked out where I needed to cut with my marking gauge, then used my router with a straight bit to cut the channels in the sapele.

Plant Motor vehicle Handheld power drill Tool Grass


Here's the first channel done.

Wood Motor vehicle Saw Musical instrument Auto part


Then I rotated the wood 90 degrees and cut the second channel.

Wood Gas Tool Hardwood Automotive tire


Sawed out the waste…

Wood Metal Outdoor furniture Wood stain Composite material


…and trimmed it to length.

Wood Hand tool Crosscut saw Wood stain Tool


I planed the ends down to my scribe lines…

Hand tool Wood Plane Jack plane Tool


…and smoothed all the external surfaces.

Motor vehicle Wood Automotive exterior Automotive lighting Bumper


Wood Grass Plant Tree Tool


After that, I eased all the external edges with a file.

Table Plant Wood Outdoor furniture Rectangle


For the top and the outside of the fence, I used the router again fitted with a round-over bit.

Wood Musical instrument Wood stain Hardwood Outdoor furniture


I'm probably missing a couple of photos here, but I basically cut out a piece of hard maple for the clamp and re-sawed it with my rip backsaw and planed it square. I used the dowel you see clamped to my Workmate as a planing stop. I plan to use two files with this holder and one is slightly thicker than the other. I used the thicker of the two as a spacer to size the maple.

Musical instrument Wood Hardwood Plant Musical instrument accessory


Next I planed a chamfer along one edge of the maple clamp to provide clearance for the set of the saw teeth.

Wood Rectangle Red Brick Kitchen utensil


Now it was time for the drilling. I'm using 20mm long M4×0.7mm pan-head bolts. So I gathered together the drills and the tap that I needed and wrapped blue tape around each drill as a depth gauge. After laying out the positions of the holes, I pricked the centers with my awl.

Handheld power drill Pneumatic tool Tool Motor vehicle Font


First the 8mm counter-bore to create a recess for the pan-head.

Wood Tool Handheld power drill Metalworking hand tool Gas


Then the 3.3mm drill which is the internal diameter of an M4×0.7mm thread.

Handheld power drill Wood Drill Tool Pneumatic tool


The maple clamp was taped in position when I drilled the internal thread diameter holes and I set my depth to go straight through the sapele and just mark the position of the holes on the maple. This also prevented any breakout on the underside of the sapele.

Wood Tool Burin Gas Hand tool


It was then easy to pick up the holes and drill my 4mm clearance holes.

Pneumatic tool Automotive tire Wood Tool Drill


Next I tapped the M4×0.7mm thread. Since I'm cutting the thread into long grain and the bolts won't be constantly unscrewed and re-tightened, there's no need for brass inserts here. Cutting the thread directly into the sapele is plenty strong enough, because you only need to cinch up the bolts to provide sufficient grip. Friction will do the rest.

Hand tool Tool Wood Metalworking hand tool Stonemason's hammer


I knew I would have to file the bolts down a bit, but I did a test fit first to find out how much I needed to take off the length. It turned out it was 2.5mm.

Wood Rectangle Musical instrument Hardwood Wood stain


So I set my adjustable set square to 17.5mm and filed down the bolts until the distance from the underside of the pan head to the end of the thread was 17.5mm. Now the heads are recessed below the surface like I wanted and there is still enough clearance under the heads to allow for adjustment in and out.

Musical instrument Hand tool Tool Wood Metalworking hand tool


And that's all there was to it really. The file is held very firmly. I tried really hard to make it slip, but I couldn't move it.

Hand tool Crosscut saw Wood Burin Metalworking hand tool


Sapele is an open-pored wood and I think the open pores improve the grip, so I didn't want to apply a surface finish like a varnish that would only fill up the pores. So I dismantled it all again and wiped on a of coat of Liberon Finishing Oil followed by a coat of wood balsam. Anyhow, here's the finished file holder complete with file, ready for action.

Wood Tool Metalworking hand tool Hand tool Gas


Hand tool Musical instrument Wood Tool Idiophone


Wood Tool Hand tool Revolver Everyday carry


This holder works equally well for right or left-handed use (I'm predominantly left-handed). If you're right-handed, you simply put the file in the other way around. I made it long enough to allow for a two handed grip as shown below. The heel of my left hand is providing downward pressure to the back of the file and my left thumb is providing lateral pressure to keep the fence riding against the side of the saw plate. My right thumb
is putting downward pressure at the front of the file and the fingers of my right hand rest on the underside of the fence to provide stability.

Finger Gesture Body jewelry Thumb Sleeve


I'm really pleased with this little holder. It's comfortable to hold and affords a very positive filing action whilst keeping your hands away from the teeth of the saw. So, if you don't already have one, why not dig around in your scrap pile to see what you can find to make one. The trickiest part was drilling the holes accurately with a hand-held drill. If you have a pillar drill with a depth stop though, it should be a piece of cake.

I'll get on and make the saw vise now.
You make it look so easy with these photos and explanations. I have a piece of sapele …...!
Jim
 

Attachments

#306 ·
Making a Saw Vise

When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.

Wood Natural material Grass Rectangle Composite material


Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.

Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
  • It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
  • The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
  • It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
  • It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
  • The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
  • It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
  • It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
  • Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.

This is what I came up with in Sketchup:

Rectangle Wood Art Fashion accessory Metal


Furniture Rectangle Wood Table Wood stain


Table Outdoor furniture Rectangle Chair Wood


Wood Rectangle Font Tool Plywood


I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.

So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.

Hand tool Table Wood Wire stripper Snips


Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.

Table Hand tool Tool Office supplies Wood


Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.

Rectangle Wood Font Art Triangle


I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…

Toy Asphalt Wood Road surface Motor vehicle


…then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.

Table Outdoor furniture Grass Wood Outdoor table


P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.

Table Wood Outdoor furniture Grass Automotive exterior


I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.

When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.

Table Outdoor furniture Wood Fence Grass


Wood Triangle Automotive exterior Rectangle Bumper


I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.

Gas Wood Electric blue Metal Screw


I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.

Wood Circle Gas Electric blue Font


This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.

Wood Monoplane Triangle Electric blue Recreation


Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…

Table Outdoor bench Outdoor table Outdoor furniture Picnic table


…scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.

Note: If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.

Food Cooking Wood Gas Outdoor furniture


Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).

Wood Outdoor bench Tool Hardwood Wood stain


So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.

Outdoor bench Wood Table Outdoor furniture Automotive exterior


I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.

Wood Wood stain Hardwood Gas Lumber


Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.

Hand tool Tool Metalworking hand tool Wood Gas


After de-burring it, I had my hinge.

Hand tool Wood Tool Office ruler Metalworking hand tool


Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.

Wood Tool Ruler Hand tool Table


After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…

Saw Hand tool Wood Crosscut saw Tool


…I glued and screwed them to each jaw.

Table Desk Bottle Wood Water bottle


While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.

Hand tool Musical instrument Saw Tool Wood


While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.

Wood Office ruler Machine Gas Household appliance accessory


Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.

Table Wood Gas Machine Self-propelled artillery


Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.

Toy Wood Tool Plant Saw


To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.

Wood Outdoor furniture Natural material Gas Wood stain


With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.

With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.

Table Handheld power drill Pneumatic tool Wood Tool


I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.

Wood Gas Tool Metal Electric blue


I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!

Gas Cylinder Automotive tire Tool Office supplies


When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker. :)

Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?

Outdoor bench Table Wood Street furniture Outdoor furniture


I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.

Wood Bumper Automotive exterior Audio equipment Motor vehicle


A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.

I drew out the shape on the wood.

Tool Wood Bumper Knife Automotive exterior


Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.

Saw Hand tool Wood Tool Musical instrument accessory


Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…

Wood Knife Blade Metal Hardwood


…and rounded the end with my rasp and file.

Wood Tool Sledgehammer Lumber Hardwood


Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.

Wood Tool Wood stain Hardwood Hand tool


I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.

8" Dovetail Saw
Wood Plant Natural material Wood stain Plywood


14" Tenon Saw
Wood Plant Fence Natural material Wood stain


26" Hand Saw
Wood Plant Insect Natural material Gas


Some more random shots.
Fence Wood Plant Grass Wood stain


Sky Wood Tree Sculpture Art


Wood Grass Table Wood stain Plank


Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.

Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?

<<<EDIT: 21/03/2012>>>

Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.

Wood Rectangle Grass Road surface Bumper


Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.

Plant Wood Outdoor furniture Chair Gas


Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.

TTFN,

Andy
 

Attachments

#307 ·
Making a Saw Vise

When I did my research, I found a number of good saw vise designs on the web. Some were simple, whilst others were more complex. The fundamental requirement of a saw vise is that it clamps a saw securely while you sharpen it, everything else is just icing. So it can be as simple as sandwiching the saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise on your bench. Last December, I had the privilege of attending a saw sharpening class with Paul Sellers at Penrhyn Castle in North Wales. At the beginning of the class, Paul looked at the saws we'd brought with us and then went over to the bandsaw and cut some batten to a suitable length for each saw. He drilled a hole in the batten and then ripped a kerf from one end up to the hole. This was a great example of an uncomplicated saw clamp.



Paul shared a lot of great information with the class and whilst it didn't automatically turn me into a saw sharpening expert, I got enough hands-on time to know that I wanted to hone my saw sharpening skills so I could maintain my own saws for the rest of my woodworking life. Using a saw that has been sharpened to task is a real joy and one that many woodworkers have sadly never experienced. That being the case, I decided to make a saw vise that would meet my needs and hopefully see me out.

Here's the design brief I wrote down for my saw vise design:
  • It should not be necessary to remove the handle in order to sharpen a saw
  • The saw vise should cater for all my saws from an 8" dovetail saw up to a 28" rip saw
  • It should not be necessary to move the saw in the vise in order to sharpen all the teeth
  • It should not be necessary to remove the saw from the vise to sharpen from the other side
  • The vise should be substantial enough that it will absorb any vibration caused by filing
  • It should provide even clamping pressure along the length of the saw plate
  • It must work on my B&D Workmate and on the workbench I intend to build in the future (a split-top Roubo with a twin screw bench-on-a-bench add-on)
  • Apart from the hardware, it must be made out of materials I already have.

This is what I came up with in Sketchup:









I decided to use a piece of 25mm MDF instead of building a frame like other saw vises I'd seen, mainly because I have been moving it from A to B for the past 18 months and wherever I put it, it always seems to be in the way. This design utilizes the clamping action of my Workmate (or any twin screw vise) with the addition of variable, localized clamping along the length of the jaws. I use Sketchup to refine ideas and model solutions, but I usually end up making subtle changes as I progress through a build.

So I dragged that pesky MDF to my Workmate and laid out one of the jaws.



Grabbing some saws I tried to decide on the best position for my localized clamps. I must have pontificated for at least 30 minutes until the surface was peppered with pencil marks. In the end, I threw down my pencil and went indoors to munch on a chicken leg.



Suitably refreshed, I turned the board over and after 5 minutes, I had the positions marked out. I went for four clamps instead of the three shown in the Sketchup drawings. The marks made by the awl were too small to see in the photo, so I've placed a red dot where they are.



I grabbed my jigsaw and cut out the shape…



…then cleaned up the saw marks with some P80 grit sandpaper.



P80 wrapped around a tube of sealant works great for curves.



I used the first jaw as the template for the second jaw.

When it came time to drill out the holes, I got one hole drilled with my cordless before the battery went flat. Luckily the Millers Falls 2B was charged and ready to go.





I'm using carriage bolts which have a small square section on the shank just under the head, so I needed to square the holes to allow the bolts to seat properly.



I wrapped some blue tape around a 10mm chisel to give me my depth, got my shoulder behind the chisel and went around each hole to square them off.



This is pretty easy to do in MDF and they were done in no time at all.



Then I put the two vise jaws aside and turned my attention to the top and bottom spacers. I'm using some Sapele (44mm x 44mm). I wanted the gap between the vise jaws to be 40mm, so I ripped the Sapele in half with my jigsaw…



…scribed a 20mm line all around the edge of each half with my marking gauge, and planed the sawn face down to my gauge line.

Note: If you want to do any planing on a Workmate, you need to add some ballast to the base, otherwise forget it.



Also, collecting the shavings as you go and chucking them straight into a carrier bag hung from one of the handles, is preferable to chasing them around the garden at the end of the day (don't ask me how I know).



So here's the dimensioned top and bottom spacers and the two bench rests that go on the outside of the jaws. I left the ends rough and slightly long for the time being. I'll plane them flush with the jaws after assembly.



I'm using a brass piano hinge to join the two jaws at the bottom and I needed to cut down the hinge to 510mm. Although piano hinges are one of the strongest types of hinges once installed, they're extremely flimsy before they're installed and need to be handled with care. The leaves are quite thin and hacksawing the hinge can easily bend them. So I made myself a little jig to ensure that didn't happen. I made two rip cuts with my backsaw which tapered in towards the bottom of the cut and knocked out the waste with a 1/8" mortise chisel. If you hit the waste at the bottom on one end, it will pop right out. Then I sawed a kerf perpendicular to the tapered slot and pushed the folded hinge into the jig so that my mark lined up with the kerf.



Now I could saw the hinge without fear of it being bent should the hacksaw suddenly grab.



After de-burring it, I had my hinge.



Now it was time to start assembling the components. So I laid out the holes for the bottom spacer making sure that the screws wouldn't interfere with the hinge screws.



After drilling the clearance holes and countersinking them…



…I glued and screwed them to each jaw.



While I was waiting for the glue to set up, I cut out one end of the top spacers to allow room for the saw handles. Then I glued and screwed the top spacers in place.



While they were drying, I rounded the ends of the bench rests.



Then it was back to the jaws again to rout a bevel on the outside top edge. I need a bigger bevel than this, but I thought I might as well remove some of the waste with the router and this was the biggest bevel cutter that I had.



Next I routed a rebate into the upper spacer to allow for the spine of my dovetail and 12" carcass saws.



To find the ideal position for the bench rests, I mounted one of the jaws in the Workmate, grabbed the magnifying glass I'll be using and a saw file and moved the jaw up and down until it was at the most comfortable height for filing. Then I put the bench rest against the jaw and drew a line to mark the position. I only screwed them on in case I want to alter the height at a later date.



With the bolts in their holes to ensure the two halves were aligned correctly I put the two halves together to mark out for the hinge screws. I inserted four hotel card keys stacked together between the bottom spacers. Since this is 2-3 times the thickness of a saw plate, it will help ensure that the clamping pressure is focused at the top edges of the top spacers.

With the hinge taped in place, I pricked the position of the holes with my awl, drilled the pilot holes, waxed the little brass screws and gingerly hand-tightened them.



I cut the bolts to the correct length and de-burred them.



I didn't want to leave the threads exposed in between the jaws in case they scratched the shiny brass spines on my backsaws, so I cut some pieces of garden hose to fit over the thread. By the way, has anyone seen that fourth star knob? I know I bought four, but where it is now is anyone's guess. I bet it's those damn squirrels again!



When I cut out the jaws, I allowed quite a bit of height because I didn't know whether I'd prefer the vise up high, low down, or somewhere in between. Now I had my bench rests positioned where I wanted them, I was left with a surplus of MDF between the bottom of the bench rests and the hinge. Well I couldn't live with that, so I measured down 5" and cut the rest of the MDF off. Of course I should have measured for the bench rest height when I first cut the MDF out shouldn't I? "Yes Andy", they shouted in unison. Still, I've heard that it is OK to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. Well I learnt that without even trying, I can be a prize plonker. :)

Anyhow, I split off the MDF from the bottom spacers with a chisel, cleaned up the glued face and re-attached them. So, it now looks like this. Much better don't you think?



I had just enough daylight left to increase the bevels at the tops of the jaws, so I grabbed my electric scrub plane as I call it and went for it. I've never planed MDF before, but it worked out well.



A couple of passes with my Stanley 607 along the tops of the jaws and a few swipes with my block plane on the faces of the jaws brought them into perfect alignment. All of a sudden, or so it seemed, the saw vise itself was finished. I still had a bit of the 44mm Sapele left, so I added a little holder for my saw file.

I drew out the shape on the wood.



Drilled and countersunk the hole for the file.



Cut off the corners with my crosscut saw…



…and rounded the end with my rasp and file.



Cut out the rebate with my rip saw and shaped the other end.



I will be putting two or three coats of water-based acrylic varnish on it before I post it in my projects, but until then here's some shots of the saw vise set up for a variety of saws. Fine woodworking it ain't, but it works brilliantly and clamps very tightly.

8" Dovetail Saw


14" Tenon Saw


26" Hand Saw


Some more random shots.
Fence Wood Plant Grass Wood stain


Sky Wood Tree Sculpture Art


Wood Grass Table Wood stain Plank


Now I've got to work out how I want to sharpen all my backsaws. In the next episode I'll post a picture of each saw, stating how they were originally sharpened and what I'm going to change them to. I'll also explain what I plan to use each saw for.

Thanks for watching! Have you found that knob yet?

<<<EDIT: 21/03/2012>>>

Before I applied the finish, I thought I'd better check that all of my saws fit in the vise. I found that the handle on this little 20" Disston Panel saw wouldn't allow me to get the saw far enough into the vise. I have therefore increased the length of the cut-out and reduced the height of the jaws along their entire length. Although my design criteria stated that I didn't want to have to remove the handles when I sharpened my saws, I don't actually mind for the Disston type fixings. It's the split nuts on my old English saws that I didn't want to keep taking out and putting back in if I didn't have to.

Wood Rectangle Grass Road surface Bumper


Here's the saw vise after finishing. I think I might just have a go at this little 8" dovetail saw this afternoon.

Plant Wood Outdoor furniture Chair Gas


Just wanted to update the blog in case anyone was thinking of copying my design.

TTFN,

Andy
Very nice Andy. Sweet 607 too. I look forward to you building your bench. However, you seem to be pretty accomplished on your Workmate. You kind of remind me of commercials they have for our armed forces here. They do more before 9 am than we do all day. You do more with your Workmate than I do with anything! Great job.
 

Attachments

#359 ·
Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw

You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied. :) The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?

Wood Creative arts Wood stain Bicycle part Varnish


I chose it for two reasons:

  1. For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
  2. It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.

Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.



I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.

Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.



The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.



Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:

"It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."

Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.





Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.



I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.





It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.

"Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."



When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.



Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.

Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.



I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.

You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.



So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.



After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.



Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.



So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.





And this is where it all started.



To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.

If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.

Thanks for watching!

P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.
 

Attachments

#360 ·
Hand Shaping and Sharpening the Teeth on a Backsaw

You know I said at the end of my last post that I'd post a picture of each saw and tell you how I was going to sharpen them and why? Well I lied. :) The temptation of my restored backsaws, a saw vise and a bundle of saw files was just too much. I had to sharpen a saw, but which one? I thought about it for a while and settled on the little Spear & Jackson 8" Dovetail saw. Remember this one?



I chose it for two reasons:

  1. For a dovetail saw, the depth of cut is quite big at 50mm. I could afford to mess up two or three times and still have enough depth of cut left to have a useable dovetail saw.
  2. It's just so damn cute and I couldn't wait to try it out.

Looking closely at the teeth under a magnifying glass, I could see that quite a few of them were misshapen. Of course they were also blunt and the set had been removed when I sanded the saw plate during the restoration. It had originally been sharpened at 15TPI rip with what looked like 8 degrees of rake, but it varied a lot from tooth to tooth. Before I did anything to it I thought I'd try it out, so I put an off-cut of Sapele in my Workmate and attempted a cut. I got about 4mm into the cut and it totally jammed.

Musical instrument Wood Art String instrument Grass


I decided that the best course of action was to remove the existing teeth and file new teeth, rather than try to correct the existing teeth. They were just too bad.

Since I have a Gramercy dovetail saw that is filed 18TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake, I don't have a problem starting 0 rake dovetail saws. So I decided to keep this one at 15TPI rip with 0 degrees of rake.
The first step was to grip the saw upside down in my Workmate and file the teeth completely off.

Wood Gas Natural material Hardwood Wood stain


The file holder I made worked great and soon I had a flat, clean edge on the saw plate.

Wood Wood stain Hardwood Tool Plank


Some people argue that you can't hand file new teeth into a saw plate as you'll never get them all exactly the same size. Well the good news is that within reason, they don't need to all be exactly the same size. Of course you strive for perfection, but if a few teeth are slightly off, the saw will still work and cut well. I believe it was Mike Wenzloff who said:

"It's not perfect teeth you're after, it's perfect sawing."

Still, 15TPI is pretty small and there's precious little room for error, so to ensure I filed 15 teeth for each of the 8 inches on the saw plate, I drew a template in Google Sketchup. When I printed it out, I made sure that my printer settings would print it full scale. Then I cut it out, put double-sided tape on the back and carefully lined it up with the front edge of the saw plate and parallel to my jointed edge.

Wood Hand tool Tool Knife Wood stain




Now I'm 51 and I wear glasses for close-up work. Even with my glasses on, the teeth on the template were a blur. There was no way I would be able to do this accurately without the aid of a good magnifying glass. Luckily I had one on a flexible gooseneck with a heavy base. So I mounted the saw in my saw vise and positioned the magnifying glass. The teeth still looked small, but that was as good as it was going to get.



I'm using a 7" second cut needle file to shape and sharpen the teeth on this saw. I believe you could also use a 4" double extra slim taper file for 15TPI. Being new to saw sharpening, I must admit to being somewhat apprehensive at this point. I knew that if I was going to successfully shape these teeth, it would require every ounce of concentration and care that I could muster. I resolved to take it extremely slowly. So I picked up the file and working from the heel to the toe, I positioned the file very accurately just in front of the first tooth. Sighting down from above to ensure the face of my file was vertical (0 rake), I carefully pushed the file forward about an inch to establish a tiny groove. Now the file had a course to follow, I made four light, full length strokes. Watching the outline of the teeth on my template, I was able to see whether I needed to apply pressure against the front of the tooth, straight down, or both. I repeated this process for each tooth, constantly checking the tooth geometry from the template side and the back.





It took me about 10 minutes per inch with occasional rests. I was finding this very hard indeed, but so far I hadn't screwed up once. On the third inch, I started speeding up a bit and had to force myself to slow down again. Teeth this small can very easily be ruined with a single misplaced file stroke. I was reminded of JJW5858's tag line.

"Make something you'll love tomorrow…and do it slowly."



When I got all the way to the toe, I knelt down and looked along my template tooth by tooth. If I could still see any of the black lines, I made a mental note that I needed to apply downward pressure or press against the front of the tooth, then placed my file in that groove, stood up and stroked the file accordingly.



Next I peeled off the template, put the saw back in my Workmate and lightly jointed the teeth again. I ran a permanent marker along the tips of the teeth which showed up the tiny flats a little better. Putting it back in the saw vise, I made one more pass along the teeth to remove the flats.

Shaping all 120 teeth took me about 90 minutes and boy did I feel drained. I honestly can't remember the last time I concentrated that intensely.



I rubbed some paraffin wax on the plate and tried the saw in some Sapele. It cut pretty well, but with every stroke I could feel it grabbing at the same place. I put my finger on the tooth that seemed to grab and sighted along the toothline. There was one tooth that was slightly higher, which I must have missed on my last pass. I filed it down and tried the saw again. The saw no longer grabbed and I could get a better feel for how it cut. As the saw buried itself deeper in the cut, it felt a bit tight. Not much, but enough to require a bit of set. I have two Eclipse No.77 saw sets and the one with the red paint is for finer teeth and the pin that pushes the saws teeth against the anvil is smaller.

You can see the difference in the two sets in the following photo.



So I adjusted it to give the least amount of set possible. After marking every other tooth with a permanent marker, I went along one side of the plate setting all the black teeth. Then, working from the other side, I set all of the unmarked teeth.

Wood Grass Tool Bumper Metal


After setting the teeth, I tried the saw again. It cut much easier, but the kerf was a little too wide for my liking. I laid the saw plate flat on my granite slab and ran a medium India oil stone along each side twice to remove a bit of the set.



Now it was cutting nicely and left a thinner kerf. I found that this saw responds best to a light grip and relaxed arm movements using all the teeth. I feel a connection with this saw now and I'm sure I'll reach for it often.



So here she is my friends, my first completed saw sharpening job. Isn't she a beauty? Now the teeth are in good shape, I aim to keep them that way.





And this is where it all started.



To be perfectly honest with you, it was extremely difficult to shape these teeth accurately by hand, but I'm still glad I chose to tackle this saw first. It gave me enough of a workout to develop a feel for using a saw file and controlling it precisely. What a satisfying feeling it was to see, hear and feel this saw cut wood again.

If anyone were to ask me what I did today, I'd tell them that I made something I'll love tomorrow…and I did it slowly.

Thanks for watching!

P.S. - In case you missed it, do yourself a favor and check out JJW5858's (Joe) blog post entitled Exercises in Artisanship.
Good show, sir, GOOD SHOW! I tried my hand at this tonight. It will be awhile before I get this good though.
 

Attachments

#424 ·
More Thoughts on Sharpening Backsaws

I've been hesitating to post this entry on my Saw Talk blog series, basically because I don't feel I've sharpened enough saws yet to make any recommendations to others. Instead, I thought I would take the opportunity to point you to some websites that I have found helpful. I have read most of the information available on the web on this subject and the links below are what I consider to be the best information for those new to sharpening. If you are serious about finding out about this subject, I highly recommend you read and inwardly digest this material.

From Vintagesaws.com:

Saw Filing - A Beginner's Primer
The How's of Setting Saws

From Wenzloffandsons.com:

On Choosing Saws

From Badaxetoolworks.com:

About my (Mark Harell) Saw Filing Technique

From Blackburntools.com:

Saw Tooth Geometry
Practical Cross Cut Saw Tooth Angles

From Matt Cianci on WKFinetools.com:

Rake and Rip Saws

From Toolsforworkingwood.com:

Elements of Saw Tooth Design

I thought it might be helpful if I pointed out some of the things I've realised are important when it comes to sharpening saws, so here goes:

You must use the right size saw file for the number of teeth per inch (tpi). The number of teeth is sometimes expressed as points per inch (ppi) and you should know that:

tpi + 1 = ppi (e.g. If it is written that a backsaw is 13ppi, then it is also 12tpi)

Online stores that sell saw files usually have a table that explains which file to buy for each tooth pitch.

It is also important to perform the steps involved in saw sharpening in the right order which is:

  1. Joint
  2. Shape
  3. Set
  4. Joint
  5. Sharpen

However, depending on the condition of the teeth before you start and whether or not you intend to change the tooth geometry, it might not be necessary to perform all of these steps. For example, if the teeth are in good shape and all you want to do is touch them up so they are sharp again, then you only need to perform steps 4 and 5 and 10 minutes should see you done. You can usually sharpen the teeth on a saw 3 or 4 times before it is necessary to re-set the teeth.

One thing I've realised as I've researched saw sharpening is that there are as many opinions as to the right tooth geometry for a given saw as there are people who file saws. You hear things like:

"I like to add a touch of fleam to rip teeth."
"A little rake makes ripping easier."
"Adding slope creates more space for the sawdust and helps move it up the side of the plate."

Now I'm not saying that these people (who shall remain nameless) don't know what they're talking about, because they do. What I would like to point out though, is that the most important aspect of saw sharpening is that the teeth end up SHARP. Sharp teeth will cut wood regardless of whether they have 8 or 10 degrees of rake, 0 or 5 degrees of slope, or 6 or 8 degrees of fleam. After you have filed a few saws you will start to appreciate how rake, fleam and slope influence the cut of a particular saw, and you shouldn't get too hung up on the optimum degree settings for each of these parameters when you first start out.

On the face of it, a backsaw is a pretty simple piece of kit isn't it? It consists of a saw plate, a handle, a back or spine and two or three bolts. Whilst that's true, there are many additional factors that influence how well a backsaw will perform in a given situation. Here are some of them:

  • Sharpness of the teeth
  • Degrees of fleam
  • Degrees of rake
  • Degrees of slope
  • No. of teeth per inch
  • The straightness of the toothline
  • Saw plate thickness
  • Amount of set per side
  • Hang angle of the handle
  • Spine weight
  • The balance of the saw
  • Handle comfort and fit
  • The cant of the saw plate (if present)
  • The angle you approach the cut
  • Your ability to start a saw
  • Your ability to cut to a line
  • The type of wood you're cutting

After reading the above list, you might be forgiven for thinking that there is more to this saw sharpening lark than you first thought, but let me say it again - SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. Even if all the teeth are not exactly the same height or if the tooth geometry is less than perfect, SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. After you have sharpened a few saws, you can start to experiment with some of the other factors that can influence the saw's effectiveness. I bought the backsaws that I've restored in this blog series because I wanted to learn to sharpen and maintain my own saws and play with some of these factors to see firsthand how they affect a saw's ability to cut. I'm sure you can appreciate now why I bought as many as I did.

So armed with all this information and a good helping of commonsense, I created a spreadsheet. The column headings were:

  • Make and length of saw
  • Filing (i.e. Rip, Crosscut or Combination)
  • Teeth Per Inch
  • Rake angle
  • Fleam angle
  • Slope angle
  • Plate thickness
  • Depth of cut at the toe

I carefully measured these details on each of my backsaws and recorded them on the spreadsheet. Then I inserted a new row for each saw and after much consideration, recorded the details of how I intend to file each saw (shown below in brown text) in order to end up with a versatile set of backsaws that will cater for all my needs.



As I've already mentioned, I'm new to sharpening saws. I hope I've got it right, but the nice thing about learning how to sharpen your own saws, is that you can always change them again.

Thanks for your support. As always, I welcome your comments, be they good or bad.

Happy sharpening!
 
#425 ·
another good blog Andy. I still have as many to sharpen as I did 2 months ago. I need some sharpening motivation. Its probably going to take a few rainy days. Thanks for all the information.

SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD
SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD
SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD

:)
 
#481 ·
You win some, you lose some

So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?

Shield Font Triangle Guitar accessory Saw


This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.

Hand tool Wood Tool Wood stain Metalworking hand tool


Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.

With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.

Handwriting Rectangle Wood Grass Font


When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.

So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.

Wood Gas Tool Hardwood Tree


At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.

I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.

Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.

Material property Automotive tire Motor vehicle Gas Auto part


Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.

Wood Grass Gas Landscape Metal


I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.

Musical instrument Guitar Wood Guitar accessory String instrument accessory


Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)

Wood Grass Gas Bumper Natural material


The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.

The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.

Ruler Office ruler Wood Rectangle Tool


So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.

Rectangle Wood Automotive exterior Brick Motor vehicle


So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(

Water Wood Grey Body of water Sky


At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.

Arm Mouth Muscle Human body Jaw

Sleeve Gesture Knee Thigh Lap

Muscle Sleeve Gesture Knee Elbow

Leg Sleeve Gesture Knee Thigh

Jeans Muscle Sleeve Gesture Flash photography
 

Attachments

#482 ·
You win some, you lose some

So I thought I'd have a go at sharpening the 14 inch Cowell & Chapman backsaw (which is really a W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner). I'm going to file it 10.5 TPI rip with 9 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. I was going to add 5 degrees of slope as well, but I figure at this point I should just concentrate on filing the fleam correctly without complicating things further. Remember this one?

Shield Font Triangle Guitar accessory Saw


This saw has an extra-heavy brass back and therefore there is a considerable amount of weight behind the cut. By adding 9 degrees of rake, the saw should be easier to start and result in a smoother sawing action. In other words, adding the rake angle should reduce the tendency for the teeth to 'grab' the wood. This is all new to me, so I'm interested to see if this is in fact the case.

Hand tool Wood Tool Wood stain Metalworking hand tool


Although this saw was originally filed 10.5 TPI, to shape the teeth I decided to joint the existing teeth off completely and use my method of applying a template to the side of the saw with double-sided tape, like I did for the S&J dovetail saw. This works well for filing new teeth.

With the template affixed to the saw, I mounted the saw in the vise and knocked up a jig to give me my 9 degree rake angle. It is easy to keep the top of the jig horizontal and this means that the side of the file cutting the front of each tooth must be angled at 9 degrees. As you can see, I stupidly wrote fleam instead of rake, but at least I knew what it meant even if I didn't write it properly.

Handwriting Rectangle Wood Grass Font


When shaping, the teeth are filed at 90 degrees to the saw plate. For this reason, you can shape all the teeth from one side. Fleam only comes into play once eveny spaced teeth have been established with equal gullet depth and a consistent rake angle.

So using a 6" double extra slim saw file (suitable for 10 - 11 TPI), I moved along the plate taking 5 or 6 strokes on each tooth. This went well and soon I had all the teeth shaped the way I wanted them.

Wood Gas Tool Hardwood Tree


At this point, I decided to 'set' the teeth. Some people prefer to do this after sharpening, but in this case I elected to apply the set now so that I could test the saw before filing in the fleam. This would give me a reference point so I could compare the effect of adding 5 degrees of fleam to the teeth.

I wanted to add about .003" of set per side, so I measured the thickness of the saw plate (.025") and then adjusted my saw set until the added set gave me a measurement of .031". The numbers on saw sets are just a rough guide and it is always advisable to test the set on the teeth at the heel of the plate (under the handle), since they don't actually do any cutting. For each saw I sharpen, I'm noting down which file and saw set I used and how the saw set was set. This means that next time I come to sharpen each saw I'll know what I'm doing.

Before setting the teeth, I dabbed a permanent marker on the tip of every other tooth. This made it easy to apply set to the marked teeth from one side of the plate and the unmarked teeth from the other side of the plate.

Material property Automotive tire Motor vehicle Gas Auto part


Now I could see how the saw cut without any fleam. First I made a cut as if I was sawing off a tenon cheek, then I made a series of vertical cuts to full depth. It took about 33 strokes to reach full depth (just under 4"), although in fairness the teeth are not all perfectly sharp at this point.

Wood Grass Gas Landscape Metal


I selected Sapele as my test wood, because if a kerf looks good in Sapele, the chances are it will look even better in most other woods. Sapele is not the easiest wood to saw. It has an interlocking grain structure and often, internal stresses cause the wood to close around the saw as you're sawing, causing the saw to bind. Anyhow, let's take a look at the back of the cut. As you can see, there is a fair bit of shredding. Although this is easily removed with a swipe of a plane or sandpaper, in theory adding a little bit of fleam should reduce the amount of shredding and I wanted to see if this was true and whether there was any trade off.

Musical instrument Guitar Wood Guitar accessory String instrument accessory


Before sharpening, I lightly jointed the teeth (two passes)

Wood Grass Gas Bumper Natural material


The purpose of jointing before you sharpen is primarily to ensure the teeth are of equal height after shaping. However it also serves another purpose if you apply set before you sharpen the teeth. Setting causes the teeth to bend outwards and twist slightly. This means that the tips of the teeth are no longer perpendicular to the side of the saw plate. Instead they form a shallow inverted 'V' shape. Jointing after setting ensures the tips are 90 degrees to the side of the plate again. When ripping, you want the bottom of your kerf to be flat, otherwise when sawing a tenon cheek you will always be left with a little bit of 'fur' to clean up right in the corner where the cheek meets the shoulder.

The little flats that jointing produces are known as 'shiners' and you sharpen the teeth until you just remove each shiner. Then you know the teeth are sharp. A raking light can really help the 'shiners' stand out.

Ruler Office ruler Wood Rectangle Tool


So now it was time to sharpen the teeth and I needed to think about getting a consistent fleam angle. Once more I turned to Sketchup and drew a template which was nothing more than a series of parallel 5 degree lines. Notice that the lines lean the other way on the far side of the teeth. Since I am left-handed, the saw handle is on the left. If you are right-handed, the lines on both templates would lean the other way and the handle would be on your right. I covered the paper with Sellotape so the iron filings wouldn't stick to it and obscure the lines. By sighting down on the file, it is easy to keep it parallel with one of the lines and this ensures that your fleam angle remains consistent.

Rectangle Wood Automotive exterior Brick Motor vehicle


So I started filing all the odd numbered teeth from one side. Then after reversing my rake angle jig, I filed all the even numbered teeth from the other side. "This is a doddle", I thought. "I don't know what all the fuss is about." Then I looked more closely at the teeth I'd filed. (You have my permission to laugh now chaps.) This is what is known as 'Cows' and 'Calves' or 'Big teeth', 'Little teeth' and it basically means you've messed up. :-(

Water Wood Grey Body of water Sky


At this point, I was pretty hacked off. After doing a great job on the shaping, I'd ruined all my hard work. But what had gone wrong? Time for some introspection and to wrestle with the devil inside.

Arm Mouth Muscle Human body Jaw

Sleeve Gesture Knee Thigh Lap

Muscle Sleeve Gesture Knee Elbow

Leg Sleeve Gesture Knee Thigh

Jeans Muscle Sleeve Gesture Flash photography
Great post Andy.
Looking forward to reading the next article.
(By the way I am also in the middle of sharpening a hand saw, it was originally a crosscut saw but I am sharpening it for ripping as zero fleam seemed easier to me for a first try)
 

Attachments

#511 ·
Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity

In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.

Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:

  • Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
  • Filing too aggressively.
  • Not applying pressure in the right direction

Here's how I fixed it.

I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.

I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!

Plant Leaf Wood Office ruler Rectangle


Rectangle Wood Plant Office ruler Ruler


Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.

Wood Rectangle Grass Gas Wood stain


Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.

When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.

Grass Wood Gas Monoplane Font


When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.

Grass Monoplane Groundcover Font Soil


I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.

Wood Rectangle Automotive exterior Composite material Tints and shades


Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.

Plant Hood Wood Window Grille


Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.

Hood Plant Rectangle Wood Grass


Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.

In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.

Black Automotive tire Window Rectangle Sunlight


So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.

Wood Rectangle Automotive exterior Gas Bumper


Wood Line Bumper Gas Metal


Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.



All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.

First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.

Wood Tool Gas Saw Metal


Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.

Musical instrument Wood Grass Outdoor furniture Outdoor bench


Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.

Wood Automotive lighting Flooring Metal Road surface


Chamfered all the edges.

Wood Wall Plant Tints and shades Metal


Job done.

Wood Outdoor bench Tool Bench Gun accessory


P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. :eek:)
 

Attachments

#512 ·
Intrepid Sawster Triumphs over Adversity

In part 12 we left our intrepid sawster (Is that a word? It is now.) feeling very sorry for himself. If you haven't read part 12, you should read that first as this is a continuation of that post.

Anyhow, you can't keep a hand tool junkie down and suitably chastised by the saw gods, I picked myself up and worked the problem. I found out that I'd mistakenly thought the problem was what is known as 'Cows and Calves'. However that is when the bottom of the gullets alternate between shallow and deep. I believe my problem is correctly called 'crowding' where the teeth are of unequal width. I believe I messed up for the following reasons:

  • Rushing it and not paying enough attention to what I was doing
  • Filing too aggressively.
  • Not applying pressure in the right direction

Here's how I fixed it.

I had to go back to the shaping stage again before I could try to resharpen the teeth. At first I was going to file the teeth off completely, stick a new template on the side of the plate and file in the new teeth. In the end though, I decided to try and fix the existing teeth and even out the spacing again. In this way, I wouldn't waste any more saw plate than was absolutely necessary.

I started by jointing the teeth until the file had knocked off the top of each tooth. You can see in the following two photos that the 'shiners' vary in width and in the first photo, there is one tooth that the file barely touched. What a mess!

Plant Leaf Wood Office ruler Rectangle


Rectangle Wood Plant Office ruler Ruler


Because I'm working outside on uneven grass, I started by making sure that my Workmate was level in both directions with a spirit level. Then I clamped the saw plate in the vise and made sure that it was level using my set square as a depth gauge. This may sound a bit obsessive, but when I'm filing the teeth, I'm holding the file horizontally and my jig ensures I maintain a rake angle of 9 degrees. If the teeth aren't level in the vise, for example they sloped down from left to right, I won't be filing a 9 degree rake angle at all. It could be as much as 10 or 11 degrees.

Wood Rectangle Grass Gas Wood stain


Now I concentrated on each individual shiner. The idea here is to file each shiner evenly from the front of the tooth and the back of the tooth alternately until you meet in the middle. With each stroke the shiner will get thinner and thinner. As soon as it disappear, you stop filing that tooth and repeat the process on the next tooth.

When filing the front of each tooth, I applied light sideways pressure into the front face of the tooth.

Grass Wood Gas Monoplane Font


When filing the back of each tooth, I applied slight downward pressure.

Grass Monoplane Groundcover Font Soil


I kept alternating my stokes 1 - 2 - 1 - 2 etc, until each shiner just disappeared. Using this method, each tooth ended up the same width and depth irrespective of how wide each shiner was to start with.

Wood Rectangle Automotive exterior Composite material Tints and shades


Once I'd corrected all of the teeth, I lightly jointed them again so that each tooth had the tinniest of shiners. I then repeated the whole process to fine tune the teeth and ensure my toothline was perfectly straight.

Plant Hood Wood Window Grille


Then I set the teeth and coloured the sides and tops of the teeth with a permanent marker.

Hood Plant Rectangle Wood Grass


Another light jointing and then I was ready to try sharpening them again. When sharpening, you are actually filing the front of each tooth that is leaning away from you and the back of each tooth that is leaning towards you, whilst applying slight downward pressure. If you are filing fleam into the teeth, you need to ensure that the file is kept parallel with the lines on your fleam template when sighting down over the file. Then you repeat the process from the other side of the plate. It only takes a couple of strokes on each tooth. Don't press too hard and let the file do the work.

In what seemed like no time at all, I was done. I checked the toothline with a straightedge and blow me if it wasn't straight. That's more like it I thought.

Black Automotive tire Window Rectangle Sunlight


So here's the finished saw, made in 1887 and now given a new lease of life.

Wood Rectangle Automotive exterior Gas Bumper


Wood Line Bumper Gas Metal


Now I know you guys will demand to see it cutting, so here's a little video of me putting it though it's paces.



All my tools have to earn their keep, so I wasted no time in putting this saw to work making a tooth guard for the saw.

First I ripped the kerf for the teeth.

Wood Tool Gas Saw Metal


Then I made a rip cut to separate the guard.

Musical instrument Wood Grass Outdoor furniture Outdoor bench


Cleaned up the sawn face with a block plane.

Wood Automotive lighting Flooring Metal Road surface


Chamfered all the edges.

Wood Wall Plant Tints and shades Metal


Job done.

Wood Outdoor bench Tool Bench Gun accessory


P.S. - I used up 1/4" of saw plate by the time I'd finished with this saw, but the lessons learned are worth far more to me and I won't make the same mistakes again in a hurry. Lesson well and truly learnt. :eek:)
Andy said:"and blow me if it wasn't straight."

Great and informative post until you got all nasty and crass!
 

Attachments

#546 ·
Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested

Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.

If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides a and c below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Triangle


You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle abc = the base (a) multiplied by the height (b) divided by 2, so if a = 1 and b = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².

If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (d) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (f) becomes marginally shorter. If d = 1.2 and e = 1.6, then the area of triangle def is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Plot


If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.

Rectangle Slope Plot Parallel Font


Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.

Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.

Wood Table Tool Plant Outdoor furniture


Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.

Wood Grey Tints and shades Water Pattern


These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.

I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.

After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.



I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.

Here's where this saw's journey started…

Wood Tool Household hardware Blade Composite material


…and here it is now ready for work.

Hand tool Wood Tool Metalworking hand tool Pipe wrench


Thanks for your support folks!
 

Attachments

#547 ·
Disston No.5 - Sharpened and tested

Have you ever thought about why some saw makers add negative rake to the teeth of their rip saws? I have, but when I was drawing a 12 TPI template in Sketchup to re-tooth my Disston No.5 carcass saw, I realized that adding a touch of rake actually increases the volume of space between the teeth.

If you look at a section through a saw file, you'll see that you have an equilateral triangle (ignoring the rounded corners that define the gullets) and we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. That means that the angle formed by sides a and c below will always be 60 degrees, irrespective of the rake angle on the front of the tooth. By the way, the white area represents the saw with the teeth pointing up.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Triangle


You'll remember from your school days that the area of the triangle abc = the base (a) multiplied by the height (b) divided by 2, so if a = 1 and b = 1.6, the area of the triangle would be 0.8units².

If we add 6 degrees of negative rake to the face of the tooth, you can see that the base of our new triangle (d) increases in length whilst the hypotenuse (f) becomes marginally shorter. If d = 1.2 and e = 1.6, then the area of triangle def is 0.96units². That's an increase of 0.16units² per tooth. Multiply that by the thickness of the saw plate and you have an increase in volume.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Plot


If math isn't your thing, the following illustration might help you visualize it better. Effectively, by adding 6 degrees of negative rake, you are losing the area shown in green and gaining the area shown in red. In practice, you are increasing the amount of space that the sawdust has to accumulate between the teeth. I say sawdust, but rip teeth actually create tiny shavings as opposed to the much finer dust created by teeth filed for crosscutting. This increase can be important because when the space between each tooth becomes packed with dust, the teeth stop cutting and bottom out. Now you might think that this increase in volume is insignificant, but if you multiply the extra space by the number of teeth on a saw, it soon adds up and could make a difference to the speed of the cut.

Rectangle Slope Plot Parallel Font


Some people find that a rip saw whose teeth have been filed with negative rake is easier to start because the teeth exhibit less of a tendency to grab the wood. Personally, I've never found a saw with zero rake difficult to start. If you hold the weight of the saw off the wood so that the teeth just skim the surface until you've established a kerf, it really isn't difficult with a bit of practice. This led me to wonder whether late 19th century and early 20th century saw makers introduced negative rake into their rip tooth geometry to make up for their customers' inability to saw properly? Could it be that what their customers really needed was not negative rake, but practice at sawing? Is it right for people who are not practiced at sawing to expect to pick up a rip-filed backsaw and get good results first time? At the risk of sounding like I'm hankering after bygone days, maybe it is just that we have come to expect instant gratification from our tools without wanting to expend the necessary time and effort to learn to use them correctly and gain an understanding of what makes them work well. Anyhow, I digress.

Never having used a carcass saw with negative rake, I was interested to find out for myself if adding negative rake was in fact a good thing, so I grabbed that lovely Disston No.5 that I restored in Saw Talk #2. Originally, this saw was filed with 13 teeth per inch (14PPI), but since my Gramercy rip carcass saw is 13TPI, I re-toothed the Disston to 12TPI.

Wood Table Tool Plant Outdoor furniture


Using a 5" extra slim file, I sharpened it with 6 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam and added about .002" of set either side of the .026" plate.

Wood Grey Tints and shades Water Pattern


These little teeth are fiddly to file, but I think I'm starting to get a better feel for filing now. I'm not quick by any means and I still have to remember to breathe while I'm filing, but I think the results are passable. I'm also realizing more and more the importance of getting all of the teeth the same height. Not easy, I can tell you! When I first tested the saw, there were a couple of teeth that were fractionally taller than the rest and the saw just stopped when they hit the wood. Sure I could have forced it to continue, but I wanted it to run smoothly.

I compared the offending teeth against those either side of them and I couldn't see any difference at all. I tried feeling the difference with my finger, but I couldn't detect any variation in height. Regardless, I marked the plate just above the teeth with a pencil and put the saw teeth down on a granite plate. The saw rocked very slightly along its length and shining a light behind it enabled me to identify where the fulcrum point was. Lo and behold, it was right where I marked the plate with the pencil. It surprised me how such a small variation can make the difference between smooth and juddery cutting. After I reduced their height, the saw ran more smoothly.
Since it is my intention to use this saw for cutting small tenons, here's a little video of the saw doing just that. In my view, sawing tenons is more about accuracy than speed. In fact, as you'll see in the video, I'm holding this saw back more than I'm letting it rip.

After that you'll see me comparing it to my Gramercy rip saw which is filed 13TPI with zero degrees of rake and zero degrees of fleam. Actually to be honest, I just like sawing thin pieces of softwood with rip saws. It's the sawing equivalent of planing thin whispy shavings. I should point out that the plate thickness of the Gramercy is .020" compared to the Disston's .026", so the Gramercy is removing less wood and should be faster. To make it a fair comparison, I touched up the Gramercy before I used it so that both saws were freshly sharpened. You might like to count the number of strokes it takes me to reach the line with each saw.



I noticed when sawing the tenon cheeks that it could do with a touch more set, so I'll have to sort that out. At the moment I'd have to say that the jury is still out on whether I think rake is a good idea on a carcass saw intended for ripping, but I'll live with it for a while and see how I like it. I will probably end up filing the fleam off of it though. Whilst it does enable me to make the odd crosscut with the saw, I don't really need it to do that since I have other saws that will be filed specifically for crosscutting.

Here's where this saw's journey started…

Wood Tool Household hardware Blade Composite material


…and here it is now ready for work.

Hand tool Wood Tool Metalworking hand tool Pipe wrench


Thanks for your support folks!
Saw is a beauty Andy. Thanks for sharing, very informative.
 

Attachments

#573 ·
W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested

Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.

Plant Branch Terrestrial plant Trunk Wood


Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.

Wood Guitar accessory Rectangle Tool String instrument accessory


Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.

There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.

Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.

Wood Grass Gas Metal Tool


The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.

Plant Wood Outdoor furniture Grass Wood stain


So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.

Water Wood Wall Lake Wind wave


After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.

I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.

Wood Tool Gas Plant Cylinder


I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.

Road surface Wood Asphalt Brickwork Brick


I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.

Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.

Tar Automotive tire Road surface Asphalt Rectangle


Asphalt Road surface Font Rectangle Grass


I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.

Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.

Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.



So this is where the journey started for this saw…

Wood Tool Rectangle Household hardware Hand tool


…and here it is reborn.

Wood Gas Grass Auto part Machine


Wood Grass Gas Musical instrument Plant


Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.

Wood Grass Font Plant Signage


T.T.F.N.
 

Attachments

#574 ·
W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120 - Sharpened and Tested

Well the rain finally stopped today and the sun came out. Looking out on my garden, the squirrels were making the most of it. I sat and watched this youngster somersaulting around the garden, before settling on a branch to devour his morning pine cone.

Plant Branch Terrestrial plant Trunk Wood


Following his lead, I took the opportunity to get outside and sharpen another saw. Next up is the W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner No.120. Fourteen inches long with a .030" thick plate and an extra heavy spine. This is by far the heaviest backsaw that I own. If you've been following this blog series, you'll remember that this is the saw where I reshaped the handle and filed in a lamb's tongue to give it a bit more character.

Wood Guitar accessory Rectangle Tool String instrument accessory


Originally, it was filled 11 TPI rip, but I decided to re-tooth it to 10 TPI with 4 degrees of rake and 5 degrees of fleam. Before I could do that though, I noticed that there was a slight wave in the toothline that had to be rectified before I could start filing.

There are basically two reasons for a wavy toothline. The first is that the saw plate has slipped in the spine and the second is that the spine is slightly bent. More often than not, old backsaws that you buy at flea markets or off ebay have one or both of these problems. Many of them have either fallen on the floor, been driven over, or trodden on. If you sight along the toothline and you can see a wave, always sight along the underside of the brass back to see if you can see a corresponding bend there. A bent back is the most common cause of a wavy toothline. Chances are it won't be much, but you need to fix it if the saw is going to be of any use. There are a number of ways to go about it and this is the method I use.

Basically I just rest the back on two blocks of wood convex side up, hold it in place with one hand and hit it with a deadblow hammer at the point where it is bent the most. I start with a light blow then check it. If it isn't straight, I hit it harder and harder until the bend is removed.

Wood Grass Gas Metal Tool


The nice thing about this method is that most of the time, you don't need to remove the handle. You do need to sneak up on the right amount of force though as you don't want to bend it too far the other way. This saw took quite a blow to straighten it out due to the extra heavy spine.

Plant Wood Outdoor furniture Grass Wood stain


So I re-toothed the plate using my template method that I've gone over previously and then set the teeth and sharpened them.

Water Wood Wall Lake Wind wave


After sharpening, I stood the saw up (teeth down) on a granite surface and tried to slide a very thin piece of paper under the teeth all along the plate. I'm pleased to say that this is the first saw I've sharpened where I couldn't get the paper under any of the teeth. Hooray! Could this be progress or just a fluke I wonder? LOL.

I haven't really said much about saw files in this series yet, so let's talk about them for a minute. Both of the files in the next photo are 6" double extra slim tapered files. The top one is the one I bought first and is made by Bahco. I like these files a lot and would recommend them. Saw files don't last forever though, especially if you are using them to file in new teeth from scratch and I now need to replace this file. So that I could sharpen my saw today, I bought a 6" double-ended saw file made by Nicholson at a local hardware store, together with the uncomfortable plastic handle that the file pushes into.

Wood Tool Gas Plant Cylinder


I don't like these files much. I suppose they are Ok if all you want to do is touch up a saw in order to bring it back to sharp. If you are doing any re-toothing or heavy shaping however, they afford so little movement that it takes more than double the amount of strokes to file a new tooth. I noticed that the corners are slightly more rounded than the Bahco file too.

Road surface Wood Asphalt Brickwork Brick


I hesitated to buy it when I saw it said Nicholson, because not so long ago Paul Sellers pointed out on his blog that they ain't what they used to be. He reported that the edges were just crumbling after a few strokes. This one was fine though.

Funnily enough, when I sharpened my Disston No.5 with a Bahco 5" extra slim file, two of the three edges crumbled as soon as they touched steel, so maybe this issue isn't just confined to Nicholson. You can see what this looks like in the following two photos.

Tar Automotive tire Road surface Asphalt Rectangle


Asphalt Road surface Font Rectangle Grass


I thought I'd mention this problem because it is pointless to continue filing when this happens. If the file feels like it is grating, stop and check the edge. If you don't, your teeth will end up in a right old mess.

Anyhow, back to the No.120. Some people say that 10 TPI is too coarse for a 14" backsaw, but l believe Lie Nielsen's large tenon saw is 10 TPI, so I wanted to see what it was like to use. It does take a bit of getting used to (and I'm not there yet), but I think I am going to like this filing with a bit more practice.

Here's a little video of the saw cutting a tenon cheek so you can see how it cuts. Once again, please excuse the wobbly bench.



So this is where the journey started for this saw…

Wood Tool Rectangle Household hardware Hand tool


…and here it is reborn.

Wood Gas Grass Auto part Machine


Wood Grass Gas Musical instrument Plant


Since this is the last of my rip backsaws, I thought I'd leave you with a rip saw family shot.

Wood Grass Font Plant Signage


T.T.F.N.
Those are just your rips! They are gorgeous.

I saw a client today who just returned from England yesterday after a 6 week visit. His wife is British. They went over for the Diamond Jubilee. He was remorse because he usually plays golf twice a week but couldn't because of the incessant rain.

We talked for awhile and I thought I sounded fairly familiar with the current events over there just based on what I have read in your blogs. Cool.

Interestingly, Matt Cianci posted a blog entry just today on the sharpening of the 14" sash saw.
 

Attachments

#600 ·
Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening

I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.

Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.

Wood Rectangle Grass Road surface Composite material


The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.

  • Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
  • Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Pattern


  • Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
  • Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.

So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.

Wood Grass Outdoor furniture Street furniture Outdoor bench


I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.

Wood Outdoor furniture Monoplane Plywood Composite material


The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.

Brown Plant Textile Wood Rectangle


Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".

Bicycle part Cylinder Gas Wood Metal


I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"

Wood Brick Wood stain Brickwork Wall


Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.

Plant Wood Rectangle Grass Tints and shades


Anyhow, here's the finished saw.

Wood Tool Grass Knife Rectangle


I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.

Wood Plant String instrument Grass Musical instrument


Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.
 

Attachments

#601 ·
Disston D8 - My first Crosscut Sharpening

I managed to grab a few hours when it wasn't raining and decided to sharpen Big Joe, the first of my crosscut backsaws. I got ¾ of the way through filing in new teeth and my file gave out. I've ordered some more files which should be here early next week, so I'll return to Big Joe in a future post. I didn't want to waste the day however, so I decided to sharpen a handsaw instead - a first for me.

Some months ago, I restored a couple of 26" Disston D8s. This one is 8PPI (points per inch) with a nice apple handle.

Wood Rectangle Grass Road surface Composite material


The D8 was a revolutionary saw when it was first released. Here are some of its features.

  • Skewed back (concave) - reduces the weight of the blade and improves the balance of the saw.
  • Taper ground plate (thinner at the back than at the toothline) - reduces the weight of the plate and the amount of set required. The plate is the same thickness along the toothline and at the handle end, but the thickness of the plate is gradually reduced from the teeth towards the back edge and from the handle towards the toe as shown below.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Pattern


  • Breasted toothline (convex 'crown' along its length) - arguably mirrors the natural swing of the arm, keeping more teeth in contact with the wood.
  • Revolutionary 'in the plate' tote - instead of sitting behind the plate, the grip was brought forward. It was also the first saw handle to have the kerf cut with a circular saw blade. The top of the handle is solid wood and covers the top of the saw plate which adds strength.

So I clamped the saw in my saw vise and jointed the teeth taking care to follow the convexity of the toothline.

Wood Grass Outdoor furniture Street furniture Outdoor bench


I decided to keep the saw at 8 PPI (7 TPI), but alter the tooth geometry from 15 degrees of rake to a more aggressive 12 degrees of rake with 20 degrees of fleam. Here goes my first attempt at filing a crosscut saw.
After jointing the saw to get my 'shiners', I re-shaped the teeth.

Wood Outdoor furniture Monoplane Plywood Composite material


The following photo shows the teeth after shaping. Need2boat (Joe) has mentioned a couple of times on my previous posts in this series that I chose to learn to file the hard way by starting with backsaws instead of handsaws. He was SOOOOOOO right. I found shaping these teeth really easy, even without one of my templates stuck to the side of the plate.

Brown Plant Textile Wood Rectangle


Now it was time to add some set to the teeth prior to sharpening. I measured the thickness of the plate at the heel just under the teeth to be .041".

Bicycle part Cylinder Gas Wood Metal


I adjusted my saw set to give me .003" of set either side, which after sharpening and dressing the teeth will probably end up more like .0025"

Wood Brick Wood stain Brickwork Wall


Next I stuck a 20 degree fleam template to the top of my saw vise and went down the teeth from heel to toe sharpening every alternate tooth. I then sharpened the teeth in between from the other side of the bench. I was having so much fun that I totally forgot to take any photos of the sharpening process (sorry about that). I tried to take a close-up of the finished teeth, but the wife's little camera distorts the image if you get too close. This is the best I could get I'm afraid. In my rush to beat the rain, I also neglected to brush off the wood fibers.

Plant Wood Rectangle Grass Tints and shades


Anyhow, here's the finished saw.

Wood Tool Grass Knife Rectangle


I only just got it sharpened before it started raining again, so no video of it in action for the moment. It cuts well though.

Wood Plant String instrument Grass Musical instrument


Sorry this episode was so brief. I was just glad to get a couple of hours in which to do something productive. Normal service will be resumed shortly.
Looks great Andy, glad there was a pause in the floods for some saw work lol. I recently watched SEASON 2 The Woodrights Shop and there is a wonderful episode with Roy breaking out all his saws. If you were interested I think you can purchase internet versions of the single episodes instead of the whole DVD. Here is a link…http://shopclass.popularwoodworking.com/c-54-all-woodwrights-shop-channel-videos.aspx?pagenum=3

The show was really fun and thought of you watching it.

Be well and stay dry!

Cheers,

Joe
 

Attachments

#631 ·
Two Disston D8s - A Quick Progress Report

Just wanted to post a quick video to show a Disston D8 that I sharpened today as a 7ppi rip saw with 5 degrees of rake. I've also included the Disston D8 from my last post which was filed 8ppi crosscut with 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam.

 
#651 ·
Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested

This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.

This is how the saw looked when I received it.

Rectangle Wood Floor Flooring Beige

Rectangle Wood Flooring Floor Wood stain


Brown Wood Household hardware Hardwood Varnish


Brown Wood Hardwood Font Art


On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.

I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.

I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.

Plant Slope Automotive tire Composite material Metal


Plant Wood Terrestrial plant Electric blue Font


One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.

Rectangle Flooring Building material Wood Brick


This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.

Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.

Rectangle Asphalt Font Grass Water


It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.

Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.

The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. :eek:)

Enjoy!

 

Attachments

#652 ·
Vintage Spear & Jackson 26" Handsaw - Sharpened and Tested

This was the first saw I bought off ebay. I can't remember how much I paid, but it wasn't much. The seller only posted one dark grainy photo, so I didn't really know what I was getting and at that time I didn't know what to look for anyway. When it arrived and I removed the wrapping, I literally had goosebumps. I couldn't get over how beautiful the hand-made tote was. More than once I've drifted off into dreamland imagining the work this saw has performed during it's lifetime and the things it has seen. I believe it was made around 1839, but I don't have any real proof other than the features. To my eyes, it is a work of art. I wrote about the saw here if anyone is interested.

This is how the saw looked when I received it.

Rectangle Wood Floor Flooring Beige

Rectangle Wood Flooring Floor Wood stain


Brown Wood Household hardware Hardwood Varnish


Brown Wood Hardwood Font Art


On a saw this old, I didn't want to do anything to the tote. I just cleaned it gently and gave it a coat of wax. There is a slight chip to the underside of the top horn, but it really isn't bad enough to warrant a repair.

I don't mind admitting that I felt an enormous sense of pride to finally sharpen this old girl and test her out. The teeth were quite unevenly spaced, a few were bent and the set was all over the place. I allowed myself a big smile whilst shaping and sharpening it because I realised that these problems no longer phase me. Even though I've only sharpened eight saws to date, I was confident I could make this saw sing again. I'm so glad I persevered at saw sharpening.

I decided to leave the saw at 7 TPI (8PPI) and file it crosscut with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam.

Plant Slope Automotive tire Composite material Metal


Plant Wood Terrestrial plant Electric blue Font


One of the main differences between saws made in the early 19th century and saws made in the latter half of the 19th century and early 20th century is the hang of the handle. Remember that the hang refers to the angle between the front of the grip and the toothline. Look at the photo below and imagine you are holding the saw with a three finger grip and your first finger is pointing down the saw. Follow the line of where your imaginery finger is pointing. It is the front of the toothline right? This puts all of the power behind the stroke instead of down through the toothline. This means that only the weight of the saw is keeping the teeth engaged in the cut. In effect, the saw does the cutting and the user simply provides the power. Saws with this kind of hang angle only work if the teeth are kept sharp. When they become dull, the teeth tend to skip over the surface instead of cutting.

Rectangle Flooring Building material Wood Brick


This wasn't a problem in the early 19th century because in those days craftsman knew how to sharpen their saws and they kept them sharp.

Now look at the hang of a Disston D8 and follow your imaginery finger again.

Rectangle Asphalt Font Grass Water


It points further back on the toothline right? It is at that point in your stroke (when your elbow forms a right-angle) that you are delivering maximum power. Here the hang angle of the handle directs the power down through the toothline as well as forward, thus keeping the teeth engaged in the cut even after they start to dull.

Having never used a saw with a hang angle like the S&J, I was interested to find out how it felt to use.

The following video shows the saw in action making its first cut in God knows how long. Come and explore the old lady's curves. :eek:)

Enjoy!

Andy, your blogs are great, but you are missing the most import part of working with a handsaw. Its how you hold your mouth. It must be something like this!!

Eyelash Jaw Tooth Happy Fictional character
 

Attachments

#690 ·
It's not me, it's the saw

Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.

Office ruler Wood Ruler Gas Tool


String instrument String instrument Musical instrument Wood Art


This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.

Jeans Wood Flooring Picture frame Varnish


It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.

Rectangle Office ruler Composite material Font Electric blue


Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.

So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.

Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.

Joint Mouth Comfort Knee Wood


Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.

Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.

Flower Plant Branch Twig Tree


So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.

Flowerpot Fence Plant Houseplant Grass


I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.

Hand tool Plant Natural material Wood Tool


After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.

Table Furniture Outdoor furniture Grass Wood


After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.

Wood Natural material Musical instrument Grass Wood stain


I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.

Wood Tool Grass Plant Roof


Hood Motor vehicle Wood Bumper Vehicle


After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.

Green Plant Wood Grass Outdoor furniture


As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.

Laters Peeps.
 

Attachments

#691 ·
It's not me, it's the saw

Just in time for the Olympics, we're now having a heat wave, so I decided to sharpen Big Joe.

Office ruler Wood Ruler Gas Tool


String instrument String instrument Musical instrument Wood Art


This isn't the first time I've tried to sharpen it. When I went to Paul Sellers' saw sharpening workshop last December, I took it with me and tried to sharpen it rip.

Jeans Wood Flooring Picture frame Varnish


It looks like I know what I'm doing in that photo doesn't it? Au contraire mon ami. I made a right pig's ear of it. You've heard of progressive filing haven't you? Well ladies and gents, I give you eratic filing. Just remember when Lie Nielsen takes it up, you saw it here first.

Rectangle Office ruler Composite material Font Electric blue


Now you've stopped laughing, I'd like to point out that I actually sharpened each tooth to perfection, they just didn't belong on the same saw. After I finished, Paul invited me to try it out at his bench. Whilst with such an uneven toothline it was anything but smooth, believe it or not, it actually cut wood quite well. It was at that very moment I realized that whilst I might never be the worlds' greatest saw sharpener, with a bit more practice I probably could become proficient enough to maintain my own saws. At the very least, I was encouraged to persevere.

So seeking to restore some honour to Big Joe, I completely removed the teeth with a view to starting again. This time I decided to sharpen it crosscut with 12 TPI, 12 degrees of rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I drew one of my templates in Google Sketchup, stuck it on the saw plate with double-sided tape and filed in the new teeth.

Then I set the teeth and was 2/3rds of the way through my last pass of sharpening when the wife decided to engage me in conversation. I tried desperately to ignore her, but wives have a way of breaking your concentration. Before I knew it, instead of skipping two teeth, I skipped one and sharpened it as I answered her. Then I skipped two teeth and sharpened that one. I sharpened eight teeth incorrectly before I realised what I'd done.

Joint Mouth Comfort Knee Wood


Now at this point I should have packed up, opened a cold one, sat in a sun lounger and soaked up some rays, but I really wanted to get this saw finished. I jointed it down, sharpened all down one side again and then started sharpening the other side. The only problem was I forgot to turn my rake guide around, so I made a right mess of the first tooth. At this point I decided the saw was jinxed, kicked the sodding Workmate and put everything away.

Not wanting to waste the day though, I decided to tidy the garden. After cutting back some shrubs and pulling some weeds, I turned my attention to a Davidia (hankerchief) tree that we had bought a few years back with a view to replacing one of the Scott's pines in our garden. All of the trees in my area have protection orders on them which means you can't even trim them without applying to the council. We had applied to have the Scott's pine cut down and the application was refused. We appealed and the appeal was refused. With no place to put it, the Davidia sat in it's pot until it became pot-bound and died. Shame really, because the Davidia is a beautiful tree.

Flower Plant Branch Twig Tree


So I cut off the branches and dug the trunck out of the pot.

Flowerpot Fence Plant Houseplant Grass


I was just about to saw it up and dump it when I found myself wondering what Davidia wood was like. I could see a plane adjusting hammer handle in that wood, so I grabbed my side axe (thanks Brad) and chopped off the root ball.

Hand tool Plant Natural material Wood Tool


After telling the Workmate it was a shave horse, I grabbed my drawknife and removed the bark.

Table Furniture Outdoor furniture Grass Wood


After a bit more shaving, I cut out my hammer handle from the rest of the trunk.

Wood Natural material Musical instrument Grass Wood stain


I then continued shaping it with my No.4 1/2 and my block plane. I didn't have a shape in mind when I started working it, but the wood kind of dictated how it wanted to look.

Wood Tool Grass Plant Roof


Hood Motor vehicle Wood Bumper Vehicle


After sanding up through the grits from P80 to P600, I had my basic hammer handle. It isn't finished at this stage. I still need to shape the butt end and saw the tenon to fit the brass head (once I've made it), then wedge it in.
By the way, Davidia is a lovely wood to work. Very close grained, planes well and sands to a high polish. Shame it is such a rare tree as I'd love to get hold of some decent sized planks.

Green Plant Wood Grass Outdoor furniture


As for Big Joe there's always tomorrow, although I'm convinced it's not me, it's the saw.

Laters Peeps.
Well, at least all wasnt lost. How many times can one carry out these processes on a backsaw before its max depth of cut is a robust couple of milimeters?
 

Attachments

#711 ·
W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested

Comfort Grey Couch Pillow Font


COMMENTATOR: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!

Sleeve Collar Font Magenta Electric blue


BRIT: Thanks John.

COMMENTATOR: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?

Office ruler Wood Ruler Gas Tool


BRIT: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.

COMMENTATOR: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?

World Gesture Flag Hat Celebrating


BRIT: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.

COMMENTATOR: What does it mean to you to win gold today?

Microphone Gesture Audio equipment Finger Nail


BRIT: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?

COMMENTATOR: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?

Skyscraper World Water Building Urban design


BRIT: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.

COMMENTATOR: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…



Comfort Pillow Sleeve Couch Linens


Head Arm Leg Comfort Jaw
 

Attachments

#712 ·
W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner 14" Sash Saw - Sharpened and Tested



COMMENTATOR: We go live now to the Sawing arena where Brit has just won gold. Sawing is a new Olympic event and is the only event where you get marked down for crossing the line. Brit, congratulations!



BRIT: Thanks John.

COMMENTATOR: You were up against Big Joe, a formidable opponent. Was there any doubt in your mind that you were going to win?



BRIT: Well John, nothing is ever certain in sawing. We've met a couple of times before and he's got the better of me, but I had a chat with my coach and worked out what I needed to do today and I came out and delivered.

COMMENTATOR: Your supporters have come out in their hundreds. How much were you aware of the noise around you?



BRIT: Yeah the fans were fantastic John, I couldn't have asked for more really. The noise was deafening as I sharpened the last few teeth. I still find it incredible that people will pay good money to watch me saw.

COMMENTATOR: What does it mean to you to win gold today?



BRIT: Well John it's what I've trained for. The early mornings, the diet, it's all been leading to this moment and to finally win gold on my home turf, well, it can't get any better than this can it?

COMMENTATOR: It's a terrific win Brit. Will we see you in Rio?



BRIT: Well first I'm going to relax for a few days John and enjoy the rest of the games. Sawing is a tough event and it takes a lot out of you, but there's only one thing better than winning a gold medal and that's winning two, so you never know.

COMMENTATOR: Great to talk to you Brit and once again, congratulations on gold. Let's just re-live that winning cut again…





Beauty Andy !
And congrats on taming the wild Big Joe !
 

Attachments

#738 ·
What the heck is a sash saw?

I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.

When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:

------------------------------------------------------

Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)

Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:

"From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."

"We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."

"Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."

------------------------------------------------------

On The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.

"Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."

"My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."

"Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."

In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:

"I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."

------------------------------------------------------

Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.

In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."

Regarding plate thickness, he writes:

"I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."

"At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."

Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:

"…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."

------------------------------------------------------

Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.

Here's the information in tabular format:

Azure Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot


In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.

I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.

I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?

Musical instrument Guitar accessory Wood Rectangle Dead bolt


This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.



In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?

Wood Rectangle Wood stain Hardwood Composite material


Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.

Wood Bumper Wood stain Grass Gas


So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.

In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.

Window Plant Wood Tree Wood stain


Thanks for reading my inane drivel.
 

Attachments

#739 ·
What the heck is a sash saw?

I don't mind admitting that sash saws confuse me. I'm not talking about the word 'sash'. Obviously in days gone by, this type/size of backsaw was used to make sash windows and the name stuck. What confuses me is whether it is the length of the saw that defines it as a sash saw or the way it is filed.

When I'm confused about hand tools, I turn to the people I respect in the hand tool world and when it comes to saws those people are Joel Moskowitz, Matt Cianci, and Mark Harrell. The excerpts below are taken from their web sites/blog posts:

------------------------------------------------------

Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood)

Gramercy offer a 14" Sash saw. Here are some quotes from the accompanying text:

"From the late 18th until the mid 19th century the two most common backsaws found in a joiner's toolbag would be a dovetail saw and a sash saw. The dovetail saw would be filed with fleam so that it could be used for all small work, not just dovetailing, and the sash saw would be used for everything else."

"We are pleased to offer a 14" sash saw with a traditional combination filing for both ripping or crosscutting."

"Length of blade 14", 13ppi, depth of cut at the toe 2.87" depth of cut at the heel 3.29". 5 degrees negative rake and 7 degrees fleam. Plate thickness: 0.020"."

------------------------------------------------------

On The Saw Blog, Matt Cianci recently wrote an article entitled The Venerable Sash Saw. Here are some picks from it, but I highly recommend you read the whole article.

"Of all the tool forms lost to antiquity over the last century, I think the sash saw is one of the greatest casualties. These traditional 14 inch backsaws are true work horses because they can rip and crosscut thanks to a combination of aggressively raked and moderately fleamed teeth."

"My own experimentation with sash saws started some time ago when I read about them in Holzapfell. He describes a sash saw as being 14 to 16 inches at the toothline and having a 0.028 thick saw plate, 2.5 to 3.5 deep with 11 points per inch."

"Over the following few months, I started filing and using 12 and 14 inch backsaws with aggressive rake and moderate fleam to accomplish both ripping and crosscutting. I eventually settled on 8 to 10 degrees of tooth rake and 10 degrees of fleam. I found that saws with thinner plates and finer tooth spacing could handle more aggressive rake with great results (like 8 degrees) and conversely, saws with thicker plates and coarser spacing needed 10 degrees to keep them smooth in the kerf."

In his reply to one of the comments on this article, Matt writes:

"I've found in 9 times out of 10, regardless of plate thickness, tote hang or tooth spacing, 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam is the magic combination for sash saws."

------------------------------------------------------

Mark Harrell of Bad Axe Toolworks wrote an article entitled About my Saw Filing Technique which you can read in full on his site. It's a great article which encompasses a lot more than just sash saws. In the article, Mark refers to his 14" backsaws as sash saws, regardless of whether they are filed crosscut, rip or combination (which he refers to as hybrid filing). Here are the salient points that are relevant to our discussion.

In his PPI table, he lists the 14" sash saw as being 12-13ppi and calls it a "general purpose saw."

Regarding plate thickness, he writes:

"I find that a 0.020 gauge plate is best suited for dovetail and carcase saw work, less suitable for a 14" saw, and not suitable at all for 16" and above." He goes on to say that "…length + depth = heat. When you're ripping big tenon cheeks, the heat generated by the friction of a saw deep in that cut will expand the metal plate, causing warpage and drift along the cutline."

"At the end of the day, 14" hybrid, 16" and 18" crosscut saws should have .025 plates: that's just enough thickness to serve as a heat sink and prevent the warpage. 18" saws for hybrid and dedicated rip filings should always have a .0315 gauge plate for the same reason (length + depth = heat)."

Talking about his hybrid filing on his 14" sash saw, he says:

"…I typically recommend a filing of 12ppi hybrid-cut with the .025 plate. Here's why: a 12 point pitch is fine enough for 3/4 work, yet coarse enough for 8/4 work (and beyond - but that's where length becomes a consideration too). I'll file this saw with 17.5 degrees of fleam (more aggressive than a 20 degree dedicated crosscut filing), and 10 degrees of rake (more relaxed than a dedicated rip angle of 6 degrees, but not as relaxed as a 12 degree rake for a crosscut saw). In rip mode, my hybrid filing cuts at about 80% compared to a dedicated ripper. The gullet remains five degrees. I will relax the rake 30 teeth in from the toe, and about 20 teeth in from the heel of the toothline. This eases the start and finish of the cut. … The bottom line with my hybrid filing is you get a crosscut finish - a great crosscut finish - with decent ripping action to boot."

------------------------------------------------------

Having read the above excerpts, you can probably begin to understand why I'm confused as to what constitutes a good sash saw. As I said earlier I have the greatest respect for all these guys, but you have to admit that there is quite a bit of difference in what they deem to be the optimum filing for a sash saw.

Here's the information in tabular format:

Azure Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot


In the past I've said that I didn't really see the point of combination filing on saws. After all, you are effectively accepting less than the optimum for both crosscutting and ripping for the sake of being able to use one saw for both types of cut. This would appeal to me if I had to carry my tools and worked on different job sites, but when you're working in a small workshop I don't really think it is that much of an inconvenience to put one saw down and pick up another? The whole point of this journey though was to experiment a bit with different tooth geometries so I had to give combination saws a chance.

I have no doubt that the Gramercy sash saw is an excellent saw. I have their dovetail saw and both of their carcase saws and I like them a lot. However, I have to agree with Mark when he says length + depth = heat. When I built my breakfast bar out of hard maple, the only rip backsaw I had was my Gramercy 12" carcase saw which also has a .020" plate. I used the full depth of the plate to cut the tenon cheeks and I couldn't touch the plate afterwards it was so hot. If I owned the Gramercy sash saw, I would look at it as a bigger carcase saw. I would either buy the two 12" carcase saws, one filed rip and one filed crosscut, or if I favored saws with a longer stroke and increased depth of cut, I would buy their 14" sash saw. However, I would still be looking for a saw with a heavier back, a thicker plate (.025" to .028") and a greater depth of cut for larger tenon work.

I've never tried the Gramercy sash saw, but I can see how 5 degrees of rake and 7 degrees of fleam would work on a saw with a lightweight back and .020" plate. The saw I decided to try a combination filing on though is a very different animal. Enter stage left, the 14" Drabble and Sanderson that I restored in part 7 of this series. Remember this one?

Musical instrument Guitar accessory Wood Rectangle Dead bolt


This saw has a .030" plate and a very thick, extra-heavy brass back. It was filed 12 tpi (13ppi) when I got it. In part 11 of this series I presented a chart showing how I was going to file all the saws I've restored and I stated that I was going to re-tooth this one to be 11 tpi (12ppi). I intended to file it using the rake and fleam angles that Mark Harrell uses for his hybrid filing. I might still do that, but first I thought I would leave it at 12tpi and try Matt's recommendation of 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. My reasoning here was twofold: 1) Matt knows what he's talking about and, 2) I could easily change it to what Mark recommends if I didn't like it.

Water Rectangle Wood Flooring Road surface


In retrospect, this probably wasn't the best saw to try a combination filing on. It would have been better to make this one a dedicated rip saw with 11 tpi (12 ppi) and use one of my Tyzacks with a lighter back and .026" plate as a combination saw. Hey who knew?

Wood Rectangle Wood stain Hardwood Composite material


Anyhow, you probably want to hear how it cuts. I've only had time to try it in a bit of quartersawn sapele so far, but I have to say it rips very well. I was particularly impressed with the back of the cut. In fact it was difficult to tell the front from the back as there was no fuzz at all. The surface finish was good too. Crosscutting at 90 degrees to the grain and at 45 degrees to the grain also worked well, although there was a little bit of tear out at the back of the cut. The surface finish on the crosscuts was also very good.

Wood Bumper Wood stain Grass Gas


So am I any clearer on what characterizes a sash saw? I think so. Even though today the term sash saw is used to refer to any 14" or 16" backsaw, to me a sash saw is 14"-16" in length, with 11-13 ppi and filed with a combination filing for both crosscutting and ripping. The jury is still out on my preference for rake and fleam angles, but it should have a fairly aggressive negative rake angle and a moderate fleam angle.

In the next part of this series, I'll try to get some video of this saw cutting. Then I'm going to change it to 17.5 degrees of fleam as Mark Harrell suggests and shoot some video of that too so you can see the difference between the two filings.

Window Plant Wood Tree Wood stain


Thanks for reading my inane drivel.
I am sure you will get it all figured out. Another fine looking saw, I probably agree you may not have a need for an all in one, or rip/crosscut saw. But, I might….hint, hint.
 

Attachments

#775 ·
Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared

In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.

Wood Wood stain Hardwood Automotive exterior Varnish


Window Plant Tree Wood Sculpture


Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.

If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.

Wood Tool String instrument accessory Metal Guitar accessory


Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!



It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. :eek:)

Wood Gas Bumper Tool Metal


Thanks for watching!
 

Attachments

#776 ·
Combination Saw Tooth Geometries Compared

In my last post I said I would re-sharpen the Drabble and Sanderson to try Mark Harrell's hybrid sharpening, but I decided to leave that one with 10 degrees of rake and 10 degrees of fleam. Instead, I re-toothed my 12" Spear and Jackson Leap Frog carcass saw from 10 tpi to 12tpi and applied Mark's hybrid filing to that. I figured it would be good to have a 12" carcass saw with a combination filing as well as a 14" sash saw.

Wood Wood stain Hardwood Automotive exterior Varnish


Window Plant Tree Wood Sculpture


Mark also recommends 10 degrees of rake, but he relaxes the rake on the first 30 teeth at the toe and the last 20 teeth at the heel to give each stroke an easier start and finish. He doesn't say by how much he relaxes the rake, so I went for 12 degrees. Instead of the 10 degrees of fleam that I filed on the Drabble and Sanderson, I tried the 17.5 degrees of fleam that Mark suggests.

If truth be told guys, I'm playing now. My head tells me that there is no need to relax the rake because I don't have a problem starting a saw with 10 degrees of rake. My head also tells me that when you start to consider ½ a degree of fleam, it is time to hang up your saw set. Does ½ a degree of fleam really make a discernible difference? I doubt it, but Mark is the real deal and his saws speak for themselves, so I had to try his formula.

Wood Tool String instrument accessory Metal Guitar accessory


Well now I've got two saws filed with different combination tooth geometries, but which one's best? There's only one way to find out….....FIGHT!!!



It didn't really surprise me that Mark's filing with 17.5 degrees of fleam produced a better crosscut finish and Matt's 10 degrees of fleam produced a better rip finish. The problem is that now I can't help wondering if 15 degrees of fleam would be a nice compromise between the two. :eek:)

Wood Gas Bumper Tool Metal


Thanks for watching!
if I could only remember everything you say. I'd be a saw expert. I'm really more of a chainsaw guy anyhow.
 

Attachments

#803 ·
12" W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner Carcase Saw - Fitting a folded back

Have you missed me? Sorry for leaving you hanging for so long, but work was a bit manic leading up to Christmas. Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was just about to sharpen the last of my crosscut backsaws, a 12" carcase saw made by W. Tyzack, Sons & Turner.



I restored this saw in part 1 of this blog series. It had a number of issues and honestly, it still has a few of them.

1) The plate was heavily pitted in places.
2) The plate had a wave in it.



3) The spine was bent.
4) It was missing a split-nut.



5) The screws were bent and very little of the thread remains.
6) The spine doesn't fit the handle very well.



The above problems mean that this will never be a pretty saw, but I didn't have the heart to just throw it in the bin. As part of restoring this saw, I straightened out the wave in the plate, or so I thought. However, when I came to sharpen it today, I noticed that the wave had returned. Bummer! On closer examination, I found that the spine was also slightly bent. As I've said before, there's no point in sharpening a saw with a wave or a bent back, you have to fix those problems first, starting with straightening the spine.

When I straightened the back of my S&J Carcase saw in part 4, I used the following method where I sighted along the underside of the back and placed my finger on the convex side where it was bent the most. I marked that point with a bit of masking tape so I knew where to direct my mallet blow.



This time I placed my combination square on the convex side of the plate and rocked the straight edge until the gap was equal at either end. I could then see that the fulcrum point was so many inches from one end and that's where I needed to hit it. If the spine is stamped with the maker's name, you can sometimes use the lettering to remember where the fulcrum point is. (E.g. Hit the 'T' of the word Tyzack.) Then I placed the back on the blocks and hit it with my deadblow mallet. You need to sneak up on the right amount of force and check it frequently with the straight edge until it no longer rocks. One point worth mentioning is that steel backs take a lot more force than brass backs.

Once the spine was straight, I sighted along the toothline. Although much improved, it still wasn't straight enough. Usually you can hold the saw as shown below and rap the toe end of the back on your bench to straighten out a wave.



I managed to improve it a bit, but I couldn't get it perfect using this method. This gave me the opportunity to try something new and that was to remove the spine and refit it. The act of refitting a plate in a spine has the effect of re-tensioning the plate. These days many makers use slotted backs on their saws where the slot is machined to the thickness of the plate. Some makers even glue or pin the plate in the spine. However a folded back is different. In order for the two sides of the spine to grip the plate the spine has to be sprung. This means that when you remove the plate from the spine, the sides close up.

I think there are pros and cons for both types of backs, but for me a folded back is preferable, as it allows you to adjust the tension and also to easily replace the plate should it get irreversibly damaged.
Anyhow, I gripped the plate in the vise and used a block of hardwood and a mallet to knock off the spine. It was a BITCH to get off let me tell you, but I got there in the end.

After cleaning the plate and spine, it was time for re-fitting. I used the method kindly documented in the following four videos by Tools For Working Wood. Notice how the saw maker positions the plate and spine to get it started and how he then turns the whole assembly over and bashes the teeth (yes the teeth) with a softwood bat shaped a bit like a little cricket bat. In the last video he adjusts the position of the plate relative to the spine so that the assembly will fit into the handle correctly and the holes in the plate will line up with the holes in the handle. Enjoy.









I watched these videos a few times before I plucked up the courage to try it for myself. I'm pleased to report that it was far easier than I thought it was going to be and the plate went straight back into the spine first time. Adjusting it was a bit more tricky than it appears in the videos because the Gramercy saw in the demonstration has a nice notch in the plate that comes to rest on the metal block in his vise. Old saw plates didn't have that feature (at least none of mine do), so I had to keep tapping and offering it up to the handle to know when the alignment was correct.

The good news was that the wave had now gone and the back was still straight. HOORAH! Now I could do what I set out to do when I got up this morning and that was to sharpen the damn thing. Don't you just love these little distractions?

After filing off all the old teeth, I retoothed it by hand to 12TPI and sharpened it with 15 degrees of rake and 25 degrees of fleam. This will be great for making crosscuts in softwood. So here she is folks. She isn't pretty, but she cuts beautifully.







You know when I had almost finished sharpening her I had to smile, because although I haven't sharpened a saw since I last posted here (145 days ago), I hadn't forgotten either the process, the technique or the feel. And that my friends, is exactly the place I hoped I'd get to when I started this journey last year.

Well that was the last of my backsaws. In my next and final post (ok it might be two), I will try to sum up what I think I've learnt about restoring and sharpening saws. I have formed some surprising and somewhat controversial conclusions about tooth geometry, which I'll also share with you.

TTFN.
 
#837 ·
What's taking me so long to finish this blog series...?

... In a word - INDECISION.

I've been thinking a lot about the best way to bring this Saw Talk blog series to a close and I've now decided that I'm going to do two more posts.

In the next post I will share what I've learnt and some conclusions I've come to regarding sharpening saws. The final episode will take me a bit longer however, because I would like to post an in-depth video tutorial on saw sharpening. It will be quite long because I want to show both the theory and a number of practical examples/alternative approaches. To my knowledge there isn't anything like what I have in mind, offered for free on the web.

I want to go to the trouble of making this video for the following two reasons:

  1. I feel as though I've learnt so much that it would be wrong of me not to share it with the rest of you guys.
  2. The more I've learnt about saws and saw sharpening, the more passionate I have become about wanting to keep the art alive.

As I said, you might have to bear with me for a bit while I prepare, film and edit the video, but I promise it will be worth the wait.
 
#856 ·
So what have I learnt and has it all been worth it?

When I sat down to write this blog, my PC was asleep. I pressed a key and it immediately sprang into life so that I could begin typing. I tend to write my blogs in MS Word before pasting them into LJs and as I type, I receive feedback on my grammar and spelling and change my text accordingly. Hand tools are no different to MS Word really. Lying on a bench or hanging in a tool cabinet, they are nothing more than inanimate objects. Pick them up and use them for their intended purpose and they provide us with constant feedback. We receive and assimilate that information through our senses. We can feel, hear and see when a tool is cutting well and in a split second, respond by making the necessary adjustments. To me, it is a wonderful circle of creativity. We supply power, they respond, we listen and adapt and so it goes on with each revolution of the circle, until at last we move together in harmony towards a shared goal.

I predominantly work wood with hand tools because I really enjoy acquiring and honing the skills they demand. In fact, if truth be told, I probably enjoy the act of refining my skills more than the end products I produce with my tools. It is important that you understand that about me, in order to appreciate why I had to embark on this journey. Now, I've often thought that hand tool woodworking really comes down to four core skills. They are sawing, chiseling, planing and drilling. If you master the tools that perform these four tasks, you can do a hell of a lot with wood. However, as we all know, hand tools are useless if they're not sharp. As Paul Sellers once said:

"Master sharpening and you master your tools. Master your tools and you master wood."

Whilst I could sharpen chisels, plane irons and augers, saws intimidated me and I had to put that right. What I had not appreciated at the time though, was just how much I was going to learn along the way.

I started to list everything I'd learnt on this journey and these are the tangible things I came up with:
  • How to clean up a saw plate.
  • How to shape and re-finish a saw handle
  • How to straighten a wavy saw plate
  • How to straighten a bent saw back
  • How to select the right file for the number of teeth
  • How to change the TPI of a saw by removing the old teeth and filing new teeth
  • How to joint, shape, set and sharpen teeth
  • How to correct various sharpening problems
  • How to reduce the set on a saw
  • How to assess the amount of work a saw needs.
  • What to look for when buying a secondhand saw that I intend to turn into a user.

Additionally, there are also a number of intangible things that are now engrained in my subconscious as a result of learning to sharpen saws:
  • I've developed a feel (touch) for how much filing pressure is enough and how to bias the file to correct certain issues with particular teeth.
  • I'm getting better at applying a consistent amount of set to each tooth so that I don't need to dress the teeth afterwards with a stone.
  • I'm beginning to understand from a practical standpoint, how the hang angle, length of plate, plate thickness, TPI and the weight of the back work together and how adjusting one of these factors influences the other factors.
  • I'm starting to favour certain tooth geometries for rip and crosscut saws.
  • I'm developing a better understanding of how to use my saws, i.e. which saw to select, how to stand, how to start each saw, the angle I should approach the cut, etc.

I could go on, but I hope you can begin to see how valuable this journey has been to me in terms of increasing my understanding of saws, what makes them work well and how to use them in different situations.

NOW FOR THE CONTROVERSIAL BIT
I've mentioned in previous posts that I would share some controversial opinions that I was beginning to form about saws. Let me say right at the start of this section that what follows is JUST MY OPINION. I can only speak as I find. If you have a different opinion, that's fine by me. I respect that.

Rant On…

Opinion No.1
Saw filing is not that difficult and most woodworkers could do it. To me, knowing how to sharpen your own saws and being able to do it is a fundamental skill for any hand tool woodworker. You wouldn't send your plane irons or your chisels out to be sharpened would you, so why send out your saws? Once you have a saw that is sharpened and set correctly, it should take no more than 10-15 mins to touch up the teeth occasionally. After you've sharpened a saw 3-4 times, you will need to re-apply some set (add 5 minutes). You can either do what I did and buy a load of old saws, restore them and use them to learn to sharpen, or you can buy one old saw and just keep practicing on that. Try re-shaping the teeth, changing the rake and fleam angles, joint all the teeth off and try filing new teeth at a different TPI. I can guarantee that after you have jointed, shaped, set and sharpened a saw ten times, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Opinion No.2
Fancy shmancy tooth geometries exist because people either don't know or can't be bothered to learn how to use a saw properly. Today you hear things like:

"I like to add a touch of fleam to the rip teeth on my dovetails saws"
"I file the first 1" of teeth on my dovetail saw with 8 degrees of negative rake, the next 2" with 4 degrees of negative rake and the rest of the teeth with 0 degrees of rake."
"The first two inches of my dovetail saws have 20TPI, the next 2" have 18TPI and the rest of the teeth are 16TPI."
"I file my saws with progressive teeth (small at the toe and gradually getting bigger towards the heel)"

Although some of these filings are historical, in my opinion they are just saw makers ensuring they can still sell their wares to woodworkers who can't saw. Of course they will all cut beautifully, but anyone can start a dovetail saw with 15TPI and 0 rake along the entire length of the saw if they practice. Hell, it doesn't even take that much practice to master it. I personally prefer 18TPI on a dovetail saw, but I'm just making the point that if you buy a dovetail saw with one of these fancy filings, you'll be making more work for yourself when you come to sharpen it. They aren't necessary and they won't make your dovetails fit any better.

Opinion No.3
The quest to find the perfect rake and fleam angles is over-rated. Outside certain parameters, all this talk about adjusting the rake and fleam angles to suit certain woods has been blown out of all proportion. Sometimes you hear people who have had a go at sharpening their own saws say things like "the teeth don't look very pretty, but the saw cuts beautifully." Well you know what, they're absolutely right! Rake, fleam and slope angles are NOT the most important things in saw sharpening. Assuming the back of your saw is straight and you don't have a wave in the plate, here is what I consider makes a sweet saw in order of importance:

1) Sharp teeth.
2) A straight toothline.
3) Equal amount of set either side of the plate.
4) Rake.
5) Fleam.
6) Slope

I've said it before in this blog series and my opinion hasn't changed as my saw filing has improved. SHARP TEETH WILL CUT WOOD. I'm not saying that adjusting the rake and fleam angles won't have an effect, but it is nowhere near as important as the teeth being sharp.

Ensuring that the toothline is straight is important on a backsaw. If you can feel some judder or vibration on the return stroke when using a backsaw, then the chances are the toothline isn't perfectly straight. You will find it easier to keep the toothline straight as you get more confident at saw filing and develop a 'feel' for using the file, but to start with, try standing the saw teeth down on a sheet of plate glass or a granite slab and seeing if you can get a cigarette paper under any of the teeth.

Having an equal amount of set either side of the plate is important to ensure that the saw doesn't drift to one side. When applying set to a tooth, regardless of its size, the tooth should bend from approximately halfway down the tooth, not from the gullet, as that puts undue stress on the metal and you might break a tooth or crack the plate.

Opinion No.4
Filing slope on backsaw teeth is an unnecessary waste of time. Slope might make a difference on a big 5TPI or less rip saw intended for sawing wet wood, but common sense tells me that the difference would be so small for backsaws that it simply isn't worth bothering with.

Opinion No.5
Thinner saw plates aren't always better. It makes me laugh when saw makers today rave about how their tenon saws have thin plates and therefore cut faster because you are removing less wood. Thinner plates also bend easier and get very hot if you're cutting tenon cheeks on workbech legs in hard maple. Hot enough that you can't touch the plate for more than a second. In these situations a thicker plate with a heavier back is better. Thin plates have their place, but they're NOT always better. It depends on the size and depth of cut and the type of wood you're cutting.

Opinion No.6
Not all saw files being made today are equal. As far as I know saw files are currently being manufactured by Grobet, Vallorbe, Bahco and Nicholson. Grobet are the best quality, but hard to get outside the US and Canada. Vallorbe are a close second and are avialable in Europe. Bahco can be good if you get a good one, but they are a bit hit and miss. I've had more than one Bahco file where the teeth have crumbled away as soon as I started filing. Nicholson are no longer worth buying. Until they get their act together, they are best avoided.

…Rant Off

Having said all that, I don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting with tooth geometry themselves and forming their own opinions. After all, that's what I did. Just don't let it intimidate you and put you off having a go at sharpening your own saws.

Here are my favourite rake, fleam and slope angles for rip and crosscut backsaws.

Rip Backsaws
0-5 degrees of negative rake, 0 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.

Crosscut Backsaws
15 degrees of negative rake, 25 degrees of fleam, 0 degrees of slope.

I've decided that combination filings aren't for me. If I had to carry my tools around with me from job site to job site, then a saw filed for both rip and crosscutting might interest me, but I don't. Since I don't consider it a problem to put one saw down and pick another one up, I would rather work with two saws; one optimised for ripping and one optimised for crosscutting.

In conclusion, if you're lucky enough to own a high-end saw like a Wenzloff, Gramercy, Bad Axe, Adria, Blackburn, LN, etc., then you'll already know what a pleasure it is to use a nice sharp saw. Eventually though, they all require sharpening and it is then that you have to take the decision to either send them out to be sharpened and swallow the cost and the waiting time, or learn to do it yourself and put the saw back on the rack ready for tomorrow.

I find it encouraging that more and more woodworkers today are trying their hand at saw sharpening. I believe it would be a travesty if we let this important skill die and I hope you will all at least give it a go. Don't expect too much from the first few saws you sharpen, but if you stick with it, I promise you that you will 'get it' and you'll be glad you did.

I'll leave you with some photos of the saws that taught me about backsaws. When I bought them, they all had their own issues caused by years of neglect, improper storage and/or use, but today they all cut beautifully (except for the leftmost saw in the last photo which is a 10" dovetail saw made by C. Garlick & Sons. I only got that one a couple of days ago and haven't touched it yet).







So has restoring and learning to sharpen all these saws been worth it? Hell yeah! I wouldn't have missed it for anything and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will be using and building on these skills for as long as I'm able to work wood. Saws no longer intimidate me.

The next post in this series will be a video post, covering the theory of saw sharpening and will take you step by step through the process. I hope you'll all stay tuned for that.
 
#857 ·
Amen!

I think the same opinion/notices/experience applies to most anything woodworking - hand planes, chisels, gauging, joinery, etc. Its just that with some elements the side effects can be more easily discarded and hidden than with others and those can can't be hidden are usually put aside as "this doesn't work"
 
#899 ·
Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video

Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.

Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:

1) A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.

2) The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.

Font Number Document Electric blue Circle


In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.

3) A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.

4) A suitable saw set. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.

---------------------------------------------------

Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:

1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")
 

Attachments

#900 ·
Shopping list for the upcoming saw sharpening video

Preparations for the video are progressing well and I hope to start recording shortly. I was asked over on the Saws, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread if I would put together a list of the things you will need to follow along with my upcoming saw sharpening video.

Here is a list of what I consider to be essential items:

1) A 10-12" second cut hand file for jointing the teeth. You can use a shorter file if you are using a holder like the Veritas Jointer/Edger or one of the antique versions of a file holder. Some people also prefer to use a mill file for this operation.

2) The correct tapered saw file for the saw you intend to sharpen first. I suggest you start with a rip-filed saw. It can be a backsaw like a tenon saw if you wish or a 24"-28" rip saw, but you might find sharpening a dovetail saw a bit challenging at first due to the small teeth. It is probably best to start on a saw with teeth in the range of 5ppi to 11ppi so you can see the teeth easily. See below for a list of the files that correspond to different size teeth. You will also need a suitable handle for the file you select.

Font Number Document Electric blue Circle


In the US and Canada, Grobet saw files are the best and are available from Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley and Tools for Working Wood. In Europe, Vallorbe files are the best and are available from Classic Hand Tools and Axminster Tool Centre.

3) A means of holding your saw firmly while you file the teeth. This could be one of the many vintage saw vises, the new saw vise from Tools for Working Wood, a home made saw vise (here's the one I made, but you'll find many other designs if you google 'saw vise'), or the most basic method which is to sandwhich your saw plate between two pieces of wood in a vise.

4) A suitable saw set. I would recommend either the Stanley No.42 or the Eclipse No.77. These are both vintage saw sets and are readily available on ebay.com for the Stanley No.42 and ebay.co.uk for the Eclipse No.77. If you intend to buy vintage, please research the saw set you intend to buy before bidding to ensure you know what you're looking for. There are new copies of the Eclipse design available today made by Somax which are available in the US and Canada from Tools for Working Wood. If you are in Europe you can buy the Somax saw sets from Axminster Tool Centre or Workshop Heaven.

---------------------------------------------------

Other items that are not essential but that I will be using in the video are:

1) A packet of cigarette papers or feeler gauges (metric or imperial).
2) A flat reference surface such as the top of a table saw or bandsaw, a granite slab (kitchen worktop) or a sheet of float glass.
3) A fine tipped black permanent marker.
4) A fine diamond stone. This doesn't have to be as big as a bench stone that you would sharpen plane irons on. It can be a small diamond stone like you might use for touching up router bits.
5) A 4" long piece of scrap softwood (approximately 1" x 5/8")
and a six pack!!
 

Attachments

#918 ·
The one that got away...

I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.

Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.

Brown Rectangle Wood Gas Metal


This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.

Brown Wood Font Rectangle Metal


You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.

Horse Vertebrate Mammal Font Rectangle


If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.

Rectangle Font Parallel Paper product Screenshot


The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:

Font Writing Number Rectangle Document


So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:

Font Handwriting Writing Monochrome Rectangle


So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.

Rectangle Font Parallel Signage Electric blue


Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.

Building Sky Urban design House Monochrome


This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?

I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.

Font Rectangle Parallel Pattern Magenta


If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called The Saw Makers' Arms, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.

Rectangle Font Parallel Electric blue Number


In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.

Font Parallel Rectangle Number Paper


I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.

Organism Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot


On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.

Font Monochrome Handwriting Number Document


The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.

The first is dated 1876:

Font Art Circle Number Monochrome


The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.

Font Circle Art Number Monochrome


And the third is dated 1890.

Font Publication Paper Event Number


These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.

Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:

Font Document


So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.

Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.

Font Bicycle part Circle Wood Symmetry


Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.

The Nibs
Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.

The Cheeks
On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.

Thickness
Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.

When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 

I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.

Brown Wood Font Art Sculpture


Brown Wood Art Font Creative arts


Wood Finger Door Thumb Art


Hand Hand tool Gesture Finger Tool


Brown Wood Font Saw Metal


Thanks for looking!
 

Attachments

#919 ·
The one that got away...

I was going to save this one for later, but on the Saw, using collecting, cleaning and buying thread, Stumpynubs asked if anyone knew anything about W. H. Armitage saws. Well it just so happens that I do and here's what I've managed to find out.

Some time ago now I acquired a 14" brass-backed backsaw and just by looking at it, I can tell it is the oldest backsaw I own.

Brown Rectangle Wood Gas Metal


This saw plate is very rusty and black. There are a few missing teeth and the handle is loose and ill-fitting. Funny how the seller never mentioned that. This one is definitely going to be a challenge to bring back into service, if indeed the saw plate can be rescued. When it was new it would have been a first class saw, since it is made from London Spring Steel and has a brass back. The trade mark is a weird creature that has a horses head and front legs, but the rear half of the body kind of morphs into a curly tail.

Brown Wood Font Rectangle Metal


You can see the logo more clearly in the drawing below.

Horse Vertebrate Mammal Font Rectangle


If anyone knows what 'CAPS ANY.' means, please let me know. The initials W H stand for William Henry Armitage and this is what I have been able to find out about him from various online records. On 4th October 1833 he got married to one Rachel Cookson.

Rectangle Font Parallel Paper product Screenshot


The London Gazette dated 24th July 1844 has the following entry:

Font Writing Number Rectangle Document


So prior to 1844 he was in partnership with William Blackford (also a saw maker). The London Gazette dated 2nd February 1849 has this to add:

Font Handwriting Writing Monochrome Rectangle


So between 1844 and 1849 he was in partnership with Alfred Parkinson and Adam Knowles. In 1852, W H Armitage & Co was registered at a house at 41 Netherthorpe Street in Sheffield. The street is still there, but it now has a block of flats and a primary school on it.

Rectangle Font Parallel Signage Electric blue


Netherthorpe is a district in Sheffield. The photograph below shows how it looked in the 19th century with row upon row of terraced houses and cobbled streets.

Building Sky Urban design House Monochrome


This was the environment in which this saw was made. The smoke from the furnaces turned all the buildings black. It is said that the tilt hammers could be heard and felt everywhere and the town shock with every blow. The tables in the public houses had bars around the edges to stop the glasses vibrating off onto the floor. The working conditions were atrocious for the working men and women of the day. The 'wet grinders' (the men who ground the saw plates) started work when they were 14 yrs old and by their early 20s, suffered from chronic asthma after breathing in steel and stone dust. Isn't it incredible that even in these conditions, they managed to turn out such high quality products that we now fight over on eBay?

I found an additional reference to confirm the Netherthorpe address at Backsaws.net who site Whites (a trades directory published in 1852) as their source.

Font Rectangle Parallel Pattern Magenta


If you look at the reference below the red line, it has William working out of the Burnt Tree Lane works in 1849 and the house on Netherthorpe Street. Burnt Tree Lane was only a short walk from Netherthorpe Street and just around the corner from a public house called The Saw Makers' Arms, which incidentally was later owned by Joshua Ibbotson (brother of Thomas). The following entry shows that in 1852, William went into partnership with John Pacey (also a saw maker) and they worked out of 31 Burnt Tree Lane together under the name of Pacey and Armitage.

Rectangle Font Parallel Electric blue Number


In the following advertisement, you can see the type of products that bore their name.

Font Parallel Rectangle Number Paper


I also found this entry on the OldTools Archive which has Pacey and Armitage at Burnt Tree Lane from 1852-1855 and confirms Armitage was working there before that in 1849.

Organism Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot


On 20th October 1858, the partnership was dissolved and Pacey carried on the business alone.

Font Monochrome Handwriting Number Document


The only other references I could find to W. H. Armitage after 1858 were three advertisements.

The first is dated 1876:

Font Art Circle Number Monochrome


The second one (which is the same advert) is dated 1882.

Font Circle Art Number Monochrome


And the third is dated 1890.

Font Publication Paper Event Number


These advertisements tell us that from 1876 - 1890 W. H. Armitage & Co. were working out of the Vesuvius works on Henry Street in the Portmahon district of Sheffield. Notice that in the last advert, they claim that W.H. Armitage had been established for 50 years prior to 1890, so this tells us that William started in the saw making business in 1840.

Then I found this entry in the London Gazette dated 8th December 1891, which I think indicates William was getting out of the tool making business:

Font Document


So where does that leave me in terms of dating my saw. Well at this point in my research all I could say was that it wasn't made between 1840 and January 1849, because W.H. was in various partnerships between those two dates. Also, it wasn't made between 1852 and 1858 when Armitage was in partnership with Pacey, since it doesn't bear the name Pacey and Armitage. However, it could have been made between 1849 and 1852 or any time after 1858 up until 1890. So although it was most enjoyable to sit in my armchair and play detective, all of the above information still left me wondering when my saw was made. I had to find another way of determining the saw's age and just when I was starting to think it would remain a mystery, I came across an article on WKFineTools.com entitled The Nineteenth Century American Back Saw written by Philip W Baker. Although the title refers to American back saws, much of what he has to say equally applies to English back saws. The article presents a study of the shape and features of back saw handles from the 19th century and shows how this information can help narrow down the year of manufacture.

Consider the following two handles. The one on the right is from my Armitage saw and the one on the left is from another saw in my possession which might make an appearance at the end of this blog series. One thing I can say for certain, is that the handle on the left was made in 1887.

Font Bicycle part Circle Wood Symmetry


Now it is time to play spot the difference. Apologies for not having a better camera, you'll just have to take my word for it as far as some of the features I'm going to point out are concerned.

The Nibs
Both handles have nibs between the base of the Hook and the base of the Top Horn. However, only my Armitage handle has a Bottom Nib. The article states that nibs started appearing at the top and bottom of handles around 1845, but at this time the nibs were rounded over and did not go to a point. Only after 1850, did they start to go to a point. In the photo above, the nib on the left handle goes to a point, but both nibs on my Armitage are of the rounded over variety. So this puts my handle between 1845 and 1850.

The Cheeks
On earlier saws, the cheeks were larger and covered more of the saw plate. The chamfer at the edge of the cheek was also larger. The cheeks started to become smaller around 1846. As you can see, the cheeks on my Armitage are larger than the handle on the left, indicating the saw is older. Notice too, how the Re-curve Break is more pointed and the shape of the lamb's tongue is more squashed to accommodate the larger cheek size. These features also support the fact that the saw is older.

Thickness
Older saw handles tended to be thicker than later handles. The Armitage measures in at 19/32" whilst the handle on the left comes in at 17/32", a whole 1/16" thinner.

When all is said and done, I believe Wiliam Henry Armitage made my saw around 1849-1850, just before he went into partnership with John Pacey. However, I would love to see a saw made by W.H. Armitage & Co at the Vesuvius works between 1876 and 1891 to be sure. Anyone got one? If so, please post a picture and put this sad Englishman out of his misery. 

I won't be restoring this one for a while yet. When I removed the handle I found that it will need a new saw plate since it is cracked between two of the holes. Although I have the steel, I just don't have the time at the moment unfortunately.

Brown Wood Font Art Sculpture


Brown Wood Art Font Creative arts


Wood Finger Door Thumb Art


Hand Hand tool Gesture Finger Tool


Brown Wood Font Saw Metal


Thanks for looking!
Interesting history Andy and your detective work is right up there with Sherlock's. With a little luck you will soon solve this mystery. It's too bad these tools weren't series or date stamped.
 

Attachments

#932 ·
Sharpening Western Saws - Full Length Instructional Video

Aimed at those new to saw sharpening, this instructional video is 2 1/4 hours long and covers the theory, the tools and the practice of sharpening western saws. You get to look over my shoulder as I sharpen four saws - two backsaws and two hand saws. I'll explain the saw sharpening process and how you apply it to different scenarios.

I really hope you find it useful. As to the production quality, I've done the best I could. I had to record it outside, so there is a bit of wind noise in places and some other background noises courtesy of my neighbours, but hopefully it won't spoil your enjoyment. It is best viewed full screen in 1080 high definition with external speakers or headphones.

Now here's the video. Enjoy!
.

View on YouTube
 
#1,054 ·
Holtzapffel Saw File Handle Dimensions

Just a quick post for you guys out there with a lathe.

Since posting my saw sharpening video in Saw Talk #28, I've had a few enquiries about the saw file handles I use. I get them from an online retailer here in the UK and as far as I know they aren't available anywhere else. That means that if you don't live in the UK, shipping can be a bit prohibitive. So here are the dimensions (in millimetres I'm afraid) for anyone who is handy with a lathe. They are are a 'one size fits all' handle and are certainly the most comfortable file handles I've ever used. I'm sure someone could make a few bucks by knocking up a batch and posting them for sale on this blog. If you are interested in purchasing some, why not register your interest here too and hopefully there will be enough interest to convince someone to turn a batch.



Hope this helps.
 
#1,072 ·
Warranted Superior Medallions

Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:

"I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"

Photograph Coin Currency Money Nickel


Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

Crest Font Symbol Emblem Logo


On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?

This coat of arms bears two mottos:

1) DIEU ET MON DROIT - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.

2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:

HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.

There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.

Chin Photograph Coin Currency Money


By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.

Font Symmetry Facade Art Pattern


Shield Font Art Wood Crest


Font Working animal Crest Facade Art


Font Symbol Crest Fashion accessory Mythology


Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.

Automotive tire Tread Tableware Synthetic rubber Rim


The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.

Circle Metal Emblem Font Nickel


I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.

Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.

1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?

Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.

It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.

2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?
I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.

Brown Wood Font Wood stain Varnish


Brown Wood Household hardware Hardwood Varnish


There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.

3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?
It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.

Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.

I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.

4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?
Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.

Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"

In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.

Brown Coin Money Currency Cash


Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?

Head Font Currency Money Coin


If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.

Asphalt Flooring Floor Rectangle Automotive exterior


Wood Font Varnish Hardwood Wood stain


Artifact Art Circle Road surface Font


Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you :eek:)

The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.

At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.
 

Attachments

#1,073 ·
Warranted Superior Medallions

Over on the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum, summerfi (Bob) asked the following question with the accompanying collage of warranted superior medallions:

"I have a question about Warranted Superior medallions. I'm most familiar with the eagle medallion, which came in several versions. There are several other WS medallions though (see pic below of medallions copied from the internet). My understanding is that some British sawmakers used the WS medallion on their saws, and some of these made their way to North America. When saws began being produced in the USA, some makers used the eagle WS medallion on their second line saws. I have a medallion like the one to the right of the eagle. Is there any way of dating this style medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"



Now I must confess that I hadn't really thought much about Warranted Superior medallions before now, but summerfi's question prompted me to do a bit of research. As a result, I'm quietly confident that all of the medallions in the bottom row and the center medallion in the top row are from saws made in the United Kingdom. I've never seen a medallion like the image top right which looks like a Knight on horseback. If that is what it is, then it is probably English too. My reasoning for saying the other four medallions are English is simply because they are all based on the Official Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.



On the left, the shield is supported by the English Lion. On the right it is supported by the Unicorn of Scotland. The unicorn is chained because in medieval times a free unicorn was considered a very dangerous beast that could only be tamed by a virgin. I bet you didn't know that did you?

This coat of arms bears two mottos:

1) DIEU ET MON DROIT - The English translation of this French phrase is widely accepted to mean 'God and my right'. This motto was first used by King Richard l (Richard the Lionheart) in 1198 as he prepared to go into battle with three lions on his shield. It was later adopted as the Royal motto of England by Henry VI.

2) The other inscription which is partially obscured on a garter around the shield reads:

HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE - This is the motto of the Most Noble Order of the Garter which dates back to Edward III and is the highest pinnacle of achievement in the English honours system. Legend has it that one day when the Countess of Salisbury was dancing with the King, her garter slipped down to the floor, much to the amusement of the other courtiers. To save her from further embarrassment, the king picked it up and tied it to his own leg exclaiming "Hone Soit Qui Mal Y Pense" which translated into English reads: "Shame on him who thinks ill of it" or "Evil to him who evil thinks." So now you know why it's called the Order of the Garter, but I digress.

There is much more one could say about this coat of arms and its history, but what I particularly wanted you to notice is that the Lion on the left and the Unicorn on the right, together with the motto: DIEU ET MON DROIT are found on typical English Warranted Superior medallions. There is also always some form of shield with a crown on the top. Whilst the design varied somewhat as shown in the medallions below, these five elements together with the words 'Warranted Superior' remained constant throughout.



By the way, these elements are not just found on saw medallions. They also appear on buildings old and new across the United Kingdom in the Royal Coat of Arms, which is similar to the UK coat of arms, but with an additional lion on top of the crown.









Other old tools made in the UK bore the WS medallion too as seen on the head of this brace.



The elements even appear on the 'Tails' side of some £1 coins.



I hope by now I've convinced you that the five elements outlined above together with the words Warranted Superior are historically and fundamentally tied to the United Kingdom.

Now that we have established that, it leaves us with a number of interesting questions.

1) Why did some saw makers in the UK use this coat of arms and the words Warranted Superior on their saw medallions and what did it mean to them?

Well simply put, they were proud to say their tools came from the UK and using the coat of arms certainly added prestige. After all, what self-respecting saw maker wouldn't want to use a saw medallion that sported a unicorn that can only be tamed by a virgin? Seriously though, in the UK it was seen as a mark of the utmost quality. The word 'Warranted' is really a guarantee given by the UK saw manufacturers. The word Superior simply means that the saw was made from the best materials available at the time. Saw makers who used the WS medallion were in effect saying that they wholeheartedly stood behind their tools and were prepared to guarantee their excellence.

It also made practical sense to use WS medallions if you think about it. As any saw restorer knows, removing and refitting split nuts on old saws can give rise to many an anxious moment. They are easily broken even when taking the utmost care. As one modern day sawright put it over on the hand tool forum on Woodnet "They are an abomination." I concur and guess what, they weren't any better when they were new and artisans of old, who possibly removed them in order to sharpen and work on their saws, surely faced the same levels of anxiety. That being the case, most saw mills and hardware stores sold replacements and when the medallion broke, the fact that a Warranted Superior medallion was common to a lot of manufacturers' saws made good economic sense to the store owner and a higher chance of finding a replacement locally for the tool owner.

2) Why did other saw manufacturers choose to use their own brand on their medallions?
I don't know for certain, but I believe I'm right in saying that saws bearing manufacturers' own brand medallions appeared before saws bearing Warranted Superior medallions. Saw manufacturers such as Spear and Jackson and W. Tyzack, Sons and Turner were two such companies that used their own branding. As any marketing consultant will tell you, when a brand is established and successful, it is in effect a differentiator. It has history and a loyal following. You mess with it at your peril and at the risk of losing brand loyalty to your competition.





There were many more saw manufacturers in the UK who chose to use their own branding on their medallions. Companies like I & H Sorby, Mellhuish, Moulson Brothers, Taylor Brothers, R Groves & Sons, and Skelton Co. to name just a few.

3) Were Warranted Superior medallions only found on saw manufacturer's second line saws?
It has often been written (mostly by American bloggers and forum posters) that saws carrying a Warranted Superior medallion were second line saws produced by saw manufacturers. Whilst this is apparently true of American saw manufacturers such as Disston, Atkins, Bishop, Jennings, Woodrough & McParlin, and Simonds, it most certainly is not true of British manufacturers for the reasons given in the answer to question 1 above. The quarter-sawn beech used to make the totes was just as good as the beech used in named brands. The steel was the equal of named brands too and so was the workmanship.

Now you don't have to read too many old tool catalogues and advertisements to realize how fierce the competition was between the tool giants back in the day. It seems they all made increasingly bolder statements proclaiming their magnificence in a perpetual quest to outdo the competition and sway the punters towards their own brand(s) of tools.

I've read that US manufacturers such as Disston started using WS medallions on their second line saws in order to compete with other manufacturers on an even playing field. Maybe I'm just an old sceptic, but do you think it is possible that in order to win some market share from the WS saws imported from the United Kingdom, they actually did it in an attempt to brain wash the American public into thinking that any saw bearing a WS medallion was of lesser quality than their first line branded saws. I couldn't possibly comment, except to say that if true and the boot was on the other foot, English manufacturers would undoubtedly have done the same. When you think about it though, for American saw manufacturers to put WS medallions on second line saws is nonsensical. In effect, they are saying we guarantee that these saws are superior except for our first line saws that we've seen fit to put our name to. It doesn't make sense really does it? Either they are superior or they aren't.

4) Did UK saw manufacturers possibly make and install the US Eagle WS medallions normally found on saws made in the US and if so why?
Now we know that American saw manufacturers used Warranted Superior medallions too and until today, I've always thought the American ones sported an eagle and the English ones bore the coat of arms. However as part of my research, I read a thread on Backsaw.net where they were discussing Warranted Superior medallions and one of the members remarked that the US style Warranted Superior eagle medallion is quite often seen on saws found in North America that were originally made in Sheffield, England. How the US Warranted Superior medallion came to be on English saws is however, open to speculation. Were the saws manufactured in England with the US medallions already fitted for the express purpose of exporting the saws to the US? Were the saws sent out to the US as parts and assembled once they arrived there? Were they fitted to English saws as replacements for broken English WS medallions? Truth is we haven't got a clue, so I'll leave you to ponder that one in the bath.

Now I realize that I've been rambling on a bit and I've suddenly remembered that summerfi (Bob) who prompted this post in the first place, had a question. "Is there any way of dating this style (WS) medallion, or knowing what saw it came off of, or where it was made?"

In my opinion, the short answer is not at the present time. Having said that though, we are better placed today than ever before to put together a database of WS medallions from both sides of the pond. If every woodworker and saw collector uploaded quality images of all their WS medallions together with a record of the saw's make and model where known, we would be well on the way to being able to identify and perhaps date a saw based on the WS medallion alone. To the best of my knowledge though, no such database exists as yet. Anyone care to start one? No? Me neither. So we are left guessing at the make and age of Bob's saw and all we really have to go on is that Bob says his WS medallion looks like this one. I'm not sure if he meant that his is the same as this one or similar to it.



Honestly Bob, if you meant the latter this could take some time, but let me kick it off. Is it this one Bob?



If it is, then slap my thigh and call me Sherlock. You've got an A. Ashton & Sons saw like the one shown below which is currently waiting patiently in my To Do pile.







Sorry Bob, I'm just messing with you :eek:)

The truth is my friends that we all have a much better chance of identifying and dating a saw by closely examining the design features of the tote and any markings on the plate. Add to that the overall condition of the saw and the fact that we can ask the experts on Backsaw.net, the hand tool forum of Woodnet.net and the Saws, using collecting, restoring buying forum on Lumberjocks. All things considered, there is a good chance someone, somewhere in the world, will have one like ours and be able to identify it for us.

At the end of the day though, should all our valiant efforts lead to naught, we must man up, accept it, and learn to appreciate our Warranted Superior saws for the intriguing time capsules that they are.
Andy,

this is very interesting, thank you for sharing such a load of information.
 

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