LumberJocks

Toxicity Testing 2-Part Epoxy Used As A Beer Mug Sealer And Liner.

  • Advertise with us
Blog entry by Blackie_ posted 09-27-2013 01:24 AM 2049 reads 0 times favorited 8 comments Add to Favorites Watch

I’m at a cross road here as to weather I should edit to remove these test findings so as not to mislead anyone, this was not my intention but if I remove then it will leave others in the dark as to what this was all about, so I have opted to leave the post as it is and add a disclaimer that I’m by no means an expert in this area, comments have been raised to point out that the tester has limitations, the test are unsupported and I wouldn’t base my findings solely to be safe.

I purchased the zero water counter top filtering system and along came with it was a water quality and toxicity tester (meter), My tap water straight from the kitchen spigot reads 170 toxins but once filtered it’s zeroed out,

On my beer mugs I’ve been lining the inside of them with a 30 min two part epoxy that I purchase from a local hobby store called Hobby Town USA the epoxy is a Great Planes product, air plane modelers use it for firewalls and such. it had dawned on me that I had this tester and what better way to test the epoxy for toxin free then by using the water tester, the pictures below will demonstrate the test methods I used, if there were any sort of toxins what so ever the meter would pick it up.

The first picture shows the Zero Water filter system, a mug full of tap water straight from the faucet and the tester.

The second picture shows the the reading of 171, taken from the water already in the mug from the faucet, these are the toxins already in the water from the city,

The third picture shows a 0.0 reading from the water out of the Zero Water filtering system that had been sitting in the mug for a couple hours.

-- Randy - If I'm not on LJ's then I'm making Saw Dust. Please feel free to visit my store location at http://www.facebook.com/randy.blackstock.custom.wood.designs



8 comments so far

View Monte Pittman's profile

Monte Pittman

15450 posts in 1084 days


#1 posted 09-27-2013 01:28 AM

Your testing is probably pretty accurate. Just for curiosity, maybe let the water set for 12-24 hours.

-- Mother Nature created it, I just assemble it.

View Tim's profile

Tim

1384 posts in 707 days


#2 posted 09-27-2013 02:03 AM

The epoxy probably is safe if it’s mixed and cured properly. One source says 30 days for film finishes for food safety. Not sure about epoxy, but it’s probably longer than the listed cure time.

But I’m not sure that tester would be able to pick up the types of chemicals from the epoxy. Try putting the epoxy parts in water separately and see if the tester can pick them up at all.

View mug's profile

mug

1 post in 449 days


#3 posted 09-27-2013 02:11 AM

I made an account just to respond to your post. I am a woodworker who loves browsing the blog and forum, but I want to emphasize do not trust that meter for toxicology testing. Firstly I have to ask what units are the 171 in? Is it ppm, ppb and what is it measuring. I go on their website and all I see is marketing crap, where is the datasheet? In the quick research I did all I can find is that TDS is a measurement of dissolved salts and minerals, what they are measuring is the conductivity of the solution and inferring the total concentration of salts. While this maybe useful for measuring how much salts you remove from the water thus making it softer (also side note a water softener is an ion exchange filter), this meter will not give you any toxicology information. So basically it was included in the purchase of the filter to make it seem as though the product is doing amazing things in regard to purification.

Now for toxicology of epoxy, what you have to understand is that epoxy is an organic substance and that epoxy’s hardeners. Looking at an MSDS of west system’s 105 Resin and 205 Hardener I see these chemicals listed:
INGREDIENT NAME CAS # CONCENTRATION (%)
Propane, 2,2-bis[p-(2,3-epoxypropoxy)phenyl]-, polymers 25085-99-8 60-100
Benzyl alcohol 100-51-6 10-30
Phenol-formaldehyde polymer glycidyl ether 28064-14-4 1-10
Calcium Metasilicate 13983-17-0 1-10

and 205 Hardener :
INGREDIENT NAME CAS # CONCENTRATION (%)
Reaction products of triethylnetetramine with phenol/formaldehyde 32610-77-8 40-70
Polyethylenepolyamines 68131-73-7 10-30
Triethylenetetramine 112-24-3 5-20
Hydroxybenzene 108-95-2 1-10
Reaction products of triethylenetetramine and propylene oxide 26950-63-0 1-10
Tetraethylenepentamine 112-57-2 1-10

Now lots of these chemicals might sound strange, but I am certain you have heard of Propane, 2,2-bis[p-(2,3-epoxypropoxy)phenyl]-, aka BPA, which if I recall mimic closely estrogen. Very bad for any human. While these volatiles will mostly evaporate and dissipate after the initial hardening, I would imagine a significant proportion still remain in the epoxy , which can leach over time. Now a drinking cup implies that you are going to fill it up and pretty much quickly drink it. So the effective dosage that you get per session might be so low that its insignificant, but for sure the initial dosage will be fairly high and will drop off over time as more and more water rinse through the cup. Back to measuring toxicological quantities the only way to do this properly is to either do mass spectrometry on a sample of water and see how much of each chemical that you search is present, or a chemical test where in you can bind the compound that you are trying to find. Neither of which are quick. Now I am not trying to scare you out of doing what you want to do, you can do what ever you want to do, just don’t mislead people in thinking that that test is sufficient.

View Blackie_'s profile

Blackie_

3638 posts in 1258 days


#4 posted 09-27-2013 02:20 AM

Ok Mug I may have jumped the gun as I don’t mean to mislead, thanks for your input in this matter, sounds like the tester is limited to what it test, I can attest to one thing for sure and that the water itself from a normal drinking container taste has a huge taste difference then straight from the tap for the better.

-- Randy - If I'm not on LJ's then I'm making Saw Dust. Please feel free to visit my store location at http://www.facebook.com/randy.blackstock.custom.wood.designs

View Roger's profile

Roger

15269 posts in 1550 days


#5 posted 09-27-2013 02:44 AM

Randy, once you have 4 or 5 pints o that good ole Guinness, you won’t be able to even say toxic… lol jus kiddin

-- Roger from KY. Work/Play/Travel Safe. Kentuk55@bellsouth.net

View shipwright's profile (online now)

shipwright

5298 posts in 1543 days


#6 posted 09-27-2013 10:02 AM

When I was building boats I used a lot of epoxies from a company called Industrial Formulators of Canada. The reason that I preferred them over the others was that the company was not only owned by the chemist / mad genius that formulated the products but it was local and I could ask questions directly to the man who knew rather than to the sales staff.
Bottom line is that they produced one product that was certified food grade by Canadian government labs and did not recommend any others to be used for contact with foods. The good news is that while IFC is no longer around, having been bought up by System Three, the product is still carried by System Three. I use it a lot as it is an amazing sealer. It can be found under the same name it has always had, S1 sealer.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View Blackie_'s profile

Blackie_

3638 posts in 1258 days


#7 posted 09-27-2013 11:47 AM

Thanks Paul, I’ll go take a look.

A couple more website that I found out of I’m sure many others are

http://www.masterbond.com/tds/ep42ht-2fg

http://www.alfaadhesives.com/v2/productlist.php?series=FDA-Grade-Adhesives

-- Randy - If I'm not on LJ's then I'm making Saw Dust. Please feel free to visit my store location at http://www.facebook.com/randy.blackstock.custom.wood.designs

View shipwright's profile (online now)

shipwright

5298 posts in 1543 days


#8 posted 09-27-2013 12:57 PM

You’re on the right track now. FDA approval is what is going to cover your a**.
At least better than it was. For the record and your consideration, S1 is a very thin penetrating sealer that, if recoated makes a nice varnish finish it is often used to seal the insides of cold moulded boats. I like it for it’s viscosity, but any of the FDA approved ones you have found will work for you.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

Have your say...

You must be signed in to post the comments.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase